Know Ya Flow
Women in flow, share what they know. Hear women's stories of how they've grown, what they know, and how they are living in flow.
Know Ya Flow
Yoga's First Limb: A Deep Dive into the Yamas w/Stephanie McKinley
What moral compass guides you when traditional religious frameworks no longer resonate? In this soul-nourishing conversation, Lauren and Stephanie explore the Yamas—yoga's ethical guidelines that offer a refreshingly compassionate approach to living an aligned life.
Unlike rigid commandments that focus on what not to do, the Yamas provide a gentle framework that acknowledges our humanity. "It's just a practice," Stephanie reminds us, "and you just continue to come back to these teachings until the end of time." This permission to be imperfect while still striving for growth feels revolutionary in our perfection-obsessed culture.
The conversation dives deep into each Yama, starting with Ahimsa (non-violence)—not just toward others but toward ourselves. "The warfare inside our own minds is atrocious," Stephanie observes, highlighting how our self-talk impacts everyone around us. Through exploring Satya (truthfulness), Asteya (non-stealing), Brahmacharya (energy conservation), and Aparigraha (non-possessiveness), we discover how these ancient principles apply profoundly to modern challenges.
Most powerfully, the episode reveals how practicing these principles creates freedom from within. When we're truthful with ourselves, generous with our energy, and unattached to outcomes, we naturally show up as our authentic selves. As Stephanie shares, "It un-muddies the water, clears the fogged glass, and allows us to see things more clearly."
Whether you're seeking personal growth, better relationships, or simply a way to navigate life with more grace, this conversation offers practical wisdom for bringing these timeless teachings into your daily experience. Ready to find your way back home to yourself?
Welcome to Know your Flow podcast, where women in flow share what they know.
Speaker 1:I'm your host, lauren Barton. Join me as we talk to women and hear their stories on what they know, how they've grown and living in flow. We're back on the podcast today with stephanie mckinley hi, hi. So today we are talking about the yamas and the niyamas. Well, really, today we're just talking about the yamas, the yamas, the yamas and the niyamas. Well, really, today we're just talking about the yamas, the yamas, the yamas. I feel like a lot of times when I will say this because I'll be like talking to people who have never studied this and I'll be like oh, it's like the yamas and the niyamas. And I think, with Sanskrit, sometimes people just like tune out because they're like I don't know what you're saying or care what word is that?
Speaker 1:What did you just say? I don't know, but yeah, so we'll get into what the yamas and the niyamas are. But thank you for being here and doing this. Yes, with us we did a study. I feel like I've done yamas and niyamas at least two or three times because I've done the Thursday study. I think the study in Davis was maybe about yeah, the yamas, yeah was about both, or one in.
Speaker 1:I think it was the niyamas, actually okay yeah, yeah, yeah, and it really both times, all times. We can talk about them a thousand times over and you always learn, you know something new, and I feel like it was very helpful to my growth as a person. So thank you for providing the space to talk about these things and to learn about these things. And, if you're listening, we reference the Deborah Adele book a lot, which is what we did for the study on Thursday nights at Shine and what we did in the retreat as well. But yeah, so the yamas and the niyamas, I think they're really cool because like two things, like I think if you grew up in religion, perhaps you're kind of like well, and maybe you don't really adhere to that anymore.
Speaker 1:A lot of that stuff doesn't resonate. You're kind of like well, I don't really want to live by like the 10 commandments per se and I don't really know what moral code to follow necessarily that's completely necessary. So you kind of are like lost there. But then if you were also brought up with no religion whatsoever, maybe you're kind of like I would like something to kind of abide by and like live by, because we all kind of know like love is like the most important and to be loving and kind and all those things. But I love this, the yamas and the niyamas, because it really gives, I feel like, all that. I mean all that you really need in these teachings, because it's like, okay, this is a way that you can live morally sound. And it's kind of a check of like, how am I doing and how can I, kind of like as a compass, to move through situations with people and yourself and and the world?
Speaker 2:so yeah, totally. I agree so much and I think that that it is. It's kind of this structure, it's this framework for just living like a morally sound, ethically conscious life. I agree that it just it just feels easier to me, doesn't feel as punitive, you know, like the framework for it is this is a practice, and you just continue to come back to these teachings and practices until the end of time, instead of kind of what I got out of organized religion at a young age was you're bad if you don't, and you're like it was very punitive. And then there was like this striving for perfection, where I feel, like the yamas and Niyamas, you know, as laid out by Patanjali who you know is where we got this from is just, it's just a little bit more laid back, it's encouraging. It's like, hey, you're gonna mess up on these things, these things are not gonna be perfect, and just continue to come back to this and give it another go.
Speaker 1:I'm like, oh, I can do that, yeah, exactly, and there's not, yeah, like a punishment overhead or a you have to know everything and do it all right, or else sort of it's more fluid but also very like to the point and, yeah, totally.
Speaker 2:And it feels really straightforward and it feels in line with my soul. Yeah, you know, I don't know I try to think of, and the truth of the matter is, is they're very similar to the commandments or, I'm sure, other biblical teachings or, you know organized religion teachings. They're very similar.
Speaker 2:I mean, when you peel back all the you know man kind interpretations with a lot of you know messiness it all it all kind of is in the same route anyway, but it for some reason it does feel like really straightforward, maybe because it's not old English. Yeah, true Dance grits feels very much easier for me to digest.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think it's a shame that this isn't something like you know. I only know about this because I went to a yoga studio and then started practicing yoga and then met other people who were sharing it. But, yeah, it kind of sucks because I do feel like it's not a thing that people really know about, like kind of like, if you know, you know type of a vibe, which I think is kind of a shame.
Speaker 2:Totally, because I do feel like it's much more of a way of life that's achievable, that does not have dogma, you know, attached to it, and so it could be plastered all over the place, yeah, and we'd all get. It Probably be a whole lot better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we would all get it, and it resonates like it's not a complex ideal or like a deep thing. It's pretty simple, so let's get into it. So like, where did these come from? What is this? What are the yamas and the niyamas?
Speaker 2:So the yamas and niyamas are the first two limbs of kind of the eightfold path, the eight limb path of yoga. Patanjali wrote about it and comes. The yamas are the ethical practices and I see it just as a compass. You know, it's kind of like that moral compass of how to show up in life. The niyamas are ways to take care of yourself, personal care that also kind of ripples out into the world around you, because if we're taking care of ourselves it deeply affects how we show up in the world. And then there's asana. So most of the Western world knows asana. It's the physical practice of yoga.
Speaker 2:Pranayama, which is breath practices. Pratyahara, which is kind of this withdrawal of the senses. It just asks you to kind of really go inward, tuning out the outside world and getting to know yourself on a deeper level. That that's a very kind of surface level explanation. Darana, which is concentration, kind of choosing to focus on one thing. That could be becoming an amazing, a mechanic. It could be, you know, it could be a thousand different things, just but being focused on one thing with consistency. Dhyana, which is, you know, more of like a meditation, so a concentration, a continued focus on a single point, that's, that's more on a meditative level. And then the next would be Samadhi, which is kind of complete absorption into kind of your connection to source, where just all of the kind of human experience fades away have you found samadhi?
Speaker 2:no, but you know, I, I have a teacher that that talks about, you know, because a lot of teachers you know teach this is it's this very far away thing that you have to like get to, and I've been really blessed with incredible teachers that that frame it like it's here, it's here always, and when you're able to kind of whittle away all the stuff that keeps us disconnected from that meaning ego, our to-do lists, my worry of my child, right, like all of the things oh, I wish my house paint was different Like all of these things that keep us away from that space, then you're there, then you've arrived at it. So it's not like you have to change yourself to become something different to then experience Samadhi, and so I love that, I love that idea. So I think I've, I've had moments of it. I think I've had. I don't even think I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I have experienced that. Is it a constant state?
Speaker 1:That laughable yeah, we're human still.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely not yeah, but have I experienced bits of it where absolutely yeah, yeah it's just, it's the most. I don't think that there's english language to even describe it right. It's the most incredible, blissful, aligned experience ever yeah, the glimpses.
Speaker 1:What else else do you say? Yeah, I mean really though. Yeah, they're glimpses, you know, and moments Totally yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think it like keeps me on the path Totally Right Of oh wow, that's incredible. And if I can experience, you know, if I can study these things and look at these things and attend to my life through this framework and experience that once in a while, I am all we're doing good yeah yeah, it's fantastic.
Speaker 1:I agree, because we also have to like be here, like we can't just like float away. And I mean, I'm just thinking about Jen Shea Rube, shout out to her. She's always, like you know, I always just don't want to be like here. I want to just, like you know, be like floating and like you know and the ether, and but here I am in the physical.
Speaker 2:So I've got to do my thing like and yeah, I think that the yamas and the yamas allow us to do to be here in the physical a little bit easier, totally because we have to do it a thousand percent we can't always, yeah, be on like retreat in samadhi mode, but correct, correct when I think of, like I think about retreat, or I think about you know, monks or you know, that's just the context that I know the most about but like I think about monks who take three-year retreat or five-year retreat, where they're you know, monks that sit in a cave for three years finding themselves I just did air quotes, you know or experiencing this kind of enlightened state or even like psychedelics and things like that you know where, like you have these like glimpses.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely, where it all kind of all of the walls fade away and you're, you know, maybe more connected. But I have a tendency to be like, oh well, that's easy. I'm not saying that it's easy to sit in a cave for three years, there's nothing easy about it but you're not interacting with the day-to-day stuff that all of these teachings apply to, you know. So I don't know how I interacted with the world without these things, like before I knew about these things. I, I know how did I make it? Yeah, I mean, there was a whole lot more suffering, I can say that for sure. Yeah, oh, I was tortured.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Tortured. Yeah, yeah, so it was. It was like it was like an exhale. It was like, oh, it was a way to breathe and exist in the world and interact with myself and others with some freedom.
Speaker 1:And I think with these two, like when you're learning anything and hear something for the first time and you're like, oh, you know, that sounds really great, for instance like a hymns. I like nonviolence, you know, I want to go around and nonviolent, everything all the time Like that sounds great. And I feel like and I remember I don't know which one it was, but I I remember I think it was a hymns but I remember in our class on like a Thursday, like being but people are really annoying, though I don't know what am I supposed to do. I don't think you understand. Like I get annoyed and I can't just be this floating, never annoyed thing, person, whatever, I don't know what I'm supposed to do. And you know that was like me first learning this and kind of like still like new to practice whatever, and that was like two years ago, and I'm not saying that I'm always a himsing around anyway, but I do feel like over time, things do start to like integrate just because you've heard them and you kind of start going back to them and I feel like that's.
Speaker 1:I feel like sometimes we hear things, oh ahimsa, nonviolence. And we're like, okay, I want to be that, but it takes sort of time and not really effort. It's just just like healing, just like anything. It's just like time that like allows you to sort of have that into your system and then it becomes kind of more who you are. Does that resonate A?
Speaker 2:thousand percent, yes, and I think that you know, I think that that's what most of us don't want to give. Things is time, yeah, and attention, right, like it's awareness, a million, gazillion percent that it does take time. And curiosity, right, this awareness of what would that look like if it was different? You know, I think that to your point, like, well, I'm, it was different. You know I think that to your point, like, well, I'm annoyed with people. You know, people are annoying, like I don't know, or things are annoying. You know, whatever I get annoyed with things. We get attached to what we're comfortable with and what we know, and we get attached to these patterns that we get in and it's how we relate to the world. And when somebody brings this new idea of like, oh, what would that look like if it was different? We get defend, we defend our way. What do you mean? I could just be kind, yeah, um, I don't know. What would it look like? You're kind?
Speaker 2:better shy, less annoyed yeah, don't tell you know. Yeah, we defend what we know because really most of us have built lives unknowingly on our thoughts and feelings or what we've been told or what we've incorporated to be true. And then along comes somebody that's like, oh what, if it was this way, what you know, how would my whole life change? Maybe, maybe, maybe not, and would that be the worst thing? It? And if you do want it to change, it does take time. It takes time to to play with the concepts and and see what they look like or feel like and in real life. But most of us want things to change tomorrow. Or I want to take this pill or give me the six week course like, and then everything's changed. It doesn't work.
Speaker 1:It doesn't, like it doesn't. And there is a sense I love that you said about curiosity and just being curious about well, why do I do that? Or like what does that look like? Because that takes a lot of courage to look at your shit and be like huh, that seems like a pattern that I do and like maybe I could be open to not doing that but also not beating yourself up because that's what you do, to allowing yourself to grow and look at it.
Speaker 2:And that's why I love, love, love that Ahimsa is the first Yama. So you know it's, it's nonviolence and and the teachings there's so many different levels, right Like each of these yamas we could talk about for an hour, each an hour or three, and just scratch the surface, right Like we could probably do a month worth of talks on each one individually. So this conversation is just kind of like a little bit of an introduction. So by no means is it all encompassing. But you start looking at, you know ways that you're violent with yourself, ways that you're violent with others, and I think most of us, or at least for me, my first was like well, I'm not going around smacking anybody, like I'm pretty chill, I'm not like yeah, I'm trying to be nice, but then you know, then I have to have to look at.
Speaker 2:oh, but I totally just turned my nose up at that person and was like, yeah, yeah, or I just beat myself up because I didn't say the right thing into the microphone, or right, like whatever it is and and we're I mean the warfare inside of our own minds towards ourselves is atrocious and that affects how we show up in the world Absolutely. So if I'm constantly beating myself up and feeling like a piece of crap and feeling like I'm not worthy of goodness, you think about the ripple effect or the domino effect of that in somebody's life. Oh, my goodness. I mean mean the psychological studies that are out there of our self-talk, how we talk to ourselves, and the impact that that has on our lives and everyone around us is mind-blowing. And so here's this ancient this has been around for over 3500 years.
Speaker 2:Ancient teaching, so simple don't, don't cause harm to yourself or others. Yeah, and like you start kind of peeling back the pages on that and and it can become overwhelming yeah, right, and so then you just pick little ways that you can start to be curious and, oh, what if I woke up and was nice to myself and didn't go? Uh, you look old this morning in the mirror, like what if that wasn't the first thought that I thought of? Like it was just wow, we have this beautiful day and you're going to have a great time in it today and you're a great person.
Speaker 1:Simple, simple, simple. And I do love that is the first one, because even if you focus on that one for a whole year, because we're out here causing a lot of harm, we realize it or not, you know like we're causing it to ourselves, we're causing it to others, we're causing it to the environment, we're causing it to you, mean, blah, blah, all the things you know and correct again.
Speaker 2:This isn't to like make yourself feel like shit, remember, because non-violence, we're not doing that, but it is like a way to a different way, a thousand percent, and I think you know, for me, somebody who lived most of my life beating myself up or feeling like crap, you know, it was just such a kind, gentle way that this is what we continue to come back to and you're not going to get it perfect. There isn't even a striving for perfection. No, it's just come back to this practice again and again, and again and again, because that's what we need as humans is consistency. And to come back to things, because we get pulled off by the world around us and and life experiences. And Joe Smoe talking in the background at the movie that you're like shut up. I mean that's a violent thought right.
Speaker 2:Like, but it happens, and then I can go oh, it's an opportunity to raise awareness too, right, like, I get to see that and go. Oh, but that doesn't even feel good in my body. What if I was just a little less violent, even?
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:I. Yeah, exactly I really wish you would turn that off or, you know, exposed to that in any type of religious forum either. And so this idea of like, oh it's okay, sweetie, like you're going to screw up, it was like mind blowing. What that's okay. Yeah, just keep being kind to yourself. Yeah, like, can you just do?
Speaker 1:that Can you just do that one thing, cause so many of us are being so mean to ourselves and it's so overlooked, because we're going so outside of ourselves to get the things that we want to like ourselves more or to make ourselves happy when it's already like within us.
Speaker 2:Totally, and I think today, in today's day and age, with you know, social media and and like the comparison and the amount of violence we do to ourselves because of the world that we live in today, I think it's even more important to get this messaging of like it's okay, yeah, you can be kind to yourself. You don't have to be perfect, you don't have to beat yourself up because you didn't get your eyebrows just right this morning, or like whatever it is. You know that you're not presentable enough, that you're not enough in the world you are.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:What if that was the message that we all got? I know it's like hard to even imagine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it really is, because, yeah, I don't know, I just feel like when you I mean this is like a whole other tangent too, but but I mean I just feel like when you really love yourself or you care for yourself, like you can stay in your own lane so much more consistently and not be violent towards others because it doesn't matter what they're doing, because you're good, you feel good about your life, you feel good about the way you look, you feel good and not that you're going to feel like that all the time, but like for the most part, you're proud of who you are, you trust yourself. Like you trust your decisions. You're not going to be projecting all of this bullshit onto everybody else. Like and have opinions on things you don't need to have opinions on. And you know all this stuff Cause if you feel good about yourself, that right there does so much good for everyone else. And if everybody was like love themselves a little bit more and just think, that totally would feel a lot better.
Speaker 2:But look at the messaging we get, I mean from out of the womb. I know like we're being told how to show up who to be like. The list is endless.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Everywhere, everywhere you look, your parents, you know parents we were talking about kids earlier Parents, social media whether it's social media or not, like I mean, I grew up in magazines and that's how we learned what we were supposed to look like and you know just the messaging of that we get constantly flooding our system. So then you bring in this idea of nonviolence. It's it's a little incomprehensible. Like what do you mean? I grew up my whole life thinking I was supposed to be something else, or what I am is okay, I can, I can be okay, yeah, as I am, with kindness and be nice to myself because I didn't get straight A's, or you know. Like I mean, you start kind of looking at it and all of the different ways that we're so violent with ourselves. Yeah, it's like mind blowing.
Speaker 1:It really is. So there's nonviolence. What are all of them so what?
Speaker 2:are all the yamas right I? I do live these things, and so it feels funny to have notes, but my mind no, I know it's like what wait?
Speaker 1:what was that other one?
Speaker 2:yeah, exactly, and, uh, and, and also, just as I age, I've I've realized that my mind doesn't hold as much as it used to, which is another opportunity for me to practice ahimsa, because I beat myself up right Like, oh you should know, right, like all of these things, and then, look, I have a guideline of how I can be kind to myself and just simply have a piece of paper. Yeah, exactly, but there's Ahimsa, which is nonviolence, satya, which is truthfulnessfulness, and we can kind of like look at these a little bit more in depth, but astea, non-stealing brahmacarya, which is, you know, is originally taught, or my understanding of it again, please know that anything that I'm sharing is just what I'm taught.
Speaker 2:I'm not the be-all, end-all. There's lots of interpretations of all of these things, but bra Brahmacarya, which was originally taught as celibacy and then kind of has evolved more into walking with God or really conservation of, like, your vital energy, so being connected to life source as opposed to disconnected to it. And then Aparigraha, which is non-hoarding, non-grasping, non-possessiveness. Any of the yamas or yamas, none of the niyamas, start with it, but anything that starts with an ah is non, and so it's like the negative version of that. And so, if we look at it, I like to look at a lot of like the, the negative version of that.
Speaker 2:And so, if we look at it, I like to look at a lot of like the non things and how to practice that. It would be the opposite of that. So, ahimsa, non-violence, you know how you practice. That is kindness, compassion, empathy, it empathy. It's kind of how I was taught and feels good for me to pass along. Also it's how I incorporate it into my life. So non-hoarding, non-grasping, non-possessiveness, non-attachment is letting go, showing up with an open palm, being with what is.
Speaker 1:Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah. So using those words as what to do, as opposed to like holding on to how it says don't be possessive. Well, what am I supposed to do instead?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Be giving yeah, because I think it's easy.
Speaker 2:I think that that's what I struggled with in you know. So I my personal experience is I grew up in a Roman Catholic church and then I was also exposed to Presbyterian church, lutheran church, episcopalian church, but like a lot of organized Christian religions, and I felt like there was always a finger wag of like don't do this, don't do that, Don't. And it was. It was hard because I already felt like I was bad, and so I love the idea of of what to do, right, like. So, yes, there's this idea of like non-violence, don't be violent. But you know how does that?
Speaker 1:what does that look like?
Speaker 2:And I in studying with, so most of my studies have been. I love the book Deborah Adele, the Yamas and Niyamas. I pass that along to everybody. I think it's like the most digestible way to kind of incorporate these and she makes it very relevant in today's world. My teacher, caroline Weibar, I've done studies with, and then Janet Stone, I just love.
Speaker 2:You know, I kind of incorporate all three of those teachers and all of those teachers are taking in what they've learned from their teachers and I love that there's ancient wisdom being passed down. But and then I'm not reinventing the wheel by any means, none of us are but we put our own little like spin or interpretation or how we utilize it in our day-to-day lives and so, but those are the teachers and I remember very much. Janet Stone talks about it a lot about what to do, and I was like, oh, I love that Because we need something to focus on Correct, that's positive, be kind, be generous, meet yourself with compassion, with love, love, yeah, and that feels achievable like give me something to work towards not just like don't do this, okay, but then what should I do instead?
Speaker 1:okay, well, I'll do my best. What do I do, just?
Speaker 2:like go say 50 acts of contrition. Give me something that I can like do in real life.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So like it feels achievable or something to work with. Yeah, exactly so, yeah, I mean, I feel like we could talk about Ahimsa for the next seven hours.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And not but Satya truthfulness. Oh, go ahead, yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 1:Well, I was going to say this one's always fun because there's always the question of well, do I tell the truth, but is it violent? I feel like that. One always comes up like people are like well, you know just being brutally honest yeah, it's like oh, but I want to tell them this and the from what I have learned, it's that ahimsa comes first, like you need to be loving, but also you should be able to tell the truth, because clear is kind in theory totally, totally.
Speaker 2:But I think that there's also, you know, when, like in, in being truthful, like there's that, there's that saying and and I and I love this saying that anytime you're speaking, you know, let your words pass through three gates. Is this kind, is this true and is this necessary? I hate that one. I feel like I'd be silent a lot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the necessary is really, but it feels like I need to say it.
Speaker 2:Yeah exactly, exactly. But the kind comes first, right, the ahimsa, the nonviolence, and I think that when we're able to practice these things diligently with ourselves, I think it's easy to look at these things and be like, okay, I can be kind to others, I can be honest with others, but practicing with ourselves is where we need to start.
Speaker 1:Dude, I love that. Yes Again, yes, doing it with yourself, because even these things too, I feel like we can easily quickly be like oh yeah, I should tell so-and-so that I feel that way, or I could be nicer to so-and-so. Like we have like examples that come up but like, can you be truthful about yourself, about how you actually feel about something Correct and it like it makes you kind of stop in your tracks, like oh, wait, yeah, Can I be truthful with myself about myself, meaning, can I have boundaries?
Speaker 2:Can I say I like or don't like something that I've adopted, as you know? I mean, you look at these things. So we grow up in our lives and we have people or friends or parents that tell us something about ourselves, right, like, oh, you're difficult, right. And then we own that quality, like, oh, I'm a difficult person. And then we interact with the world around us as a difficult person, and then we build lives being difficult people. And then it's like, is that even true? Am I difficult? And can I be honest with myself and say I don't think that I am difficult? Like, first, a meet ourselves with kindness, right, like, oh, poor sweet girl, you've been told you're difficult your whole life. What has that done to you? And like unkind of raveling that ball of yarn. Like, oh, poor sweet girl, you've been told you're difficult your whole life. What has that done to you? And like un-kind of raveling that ball of yarn. But also, can I be honest and say I wasn't really being difficult there, I was just expressing a feeling, or I was expressing my own truth and that got shut down. And so then we stop being truthful with ourselves and others. It's hard, you know.
Speaker 2:I like this, I don't like this. I don't know. I was just told I like scrambled eggs. So I've eaten scrambled eggs my whole life. What would that look like, you know? And that's why I love the curiosity aspect of it, like be curious. Why don't you go find out who you are, what you like, what you don't like, and be honest with yourself, not looking to others if that's okay or not. Okay, am I going to fit in? Am I not going to fit in? But just be really honest with yourself. I don't like this. That feels uncomfortable.
Speaker 1:And then not being violent towards yourself because that's how you feel Correct.
Speaker 2:Somebody asks you, do you want to go on a hike tomorrow? And you're like, oh, I want to fit. You know, can you pause? Like that's the other thing right.
Speaker 2:Can we pause to bring in awareness? I think so many of us just rapid fire the pattern that we're in. Oh, I want this person to like me and I know I should get outside and you know, know all of these things. Can we pause and just be like, do I want to go on a hike tomorrow and notice our nervous system? You know, like, did that feel easy? Like oh yeah, that'd be really nice, or not?
Speaker 2:really I want to sit by a fire yeah you know like so, and then be honest with ourselves instead of all of the shoulds and shouldn'ts and can'ts, and if you were this and it's too muddy and we spend yeah, and a lot of us are spending a lot of time in that, because there's the warfare, right, like our minds.
Speaker 2:And that's what I love about the practice of yoga, not just the physical practice, right, but like all of these things, is it un-muddies the water, it clears the fogged glass, it allows us to see things a little more clearly, and then we can slow things down enough to maybe show up with kindness and honesty and our true selves. Maybe that's why we're here. We're not supposed to just be like go do grind, go do grind, yeah, and if that's your jam, like that's okay too. But yeah, is that really, you know, like your authentic self, can you start to peel back the layers and bring that light of awareness and go, yeah, like this is what drives me Cool, awesome, do your thing.
Speaker 1:Seriously Like there's no right or wrong, but just be truthful about who you are and what you want, and it's all good.
Speaker 2:Correct Like can we stop feeling bad for who we are?
Speaker 1:Yeah, side note and side combo from this is I, my whole thing. I feel like for a lot of my life I mean I guess the last 10 years specifically, but has been sort of this thing of like okay, well, I figured this out, I guess recently I figured this out, I know who I am, blah, blah, blah. But then there's this fear of rejection. When you actually show up as your true self and as the person, when you're honest with yourself, when you love yourself, there's still this like tinge of like. But if I show up like this, am I going to get rejected? Because it's one thing if you're walking around just being like a fake version of yourself or doing what other people want, and then if you get rejected, it doesn't mean that much. I mean it still hurts, but it doesn't mean as much because you're like, well, I mean you know that wasn't, that was just sort of like a facade or like that, that wasn't. But when you really get in touch with this and feel this, and then some people are going to not love it maybe, and like some people are going to have like objections to it or make you feel a certain way.
Speaker 1:And I was in Australia for a retreat in like September, and I asked this question. I was like well, how do you, if you really feel this way about this thing, like how do you really live in that truth without feeling like whatever? I forget how I worded it, but the guy looked at me and he said that's your whole thing, isn't it? That you're afraid that everybody's going to reject you for being yourself? I think you'd be really surprised if you just were who you were and you'll see that a lot of people will follow you and be by your side. And I was like I was like fuck, okay, like okay, like I just love that. He was like cause I was trying to muddy it with a bunch of questions about like but what if this happens and what if that happens? And he's like you're afraid of everyone rejecting you, but you don't even know that they're going to. If they do, you can't control that.
Speaker 2:You know Thousand percent, which brings us to like that aparigraha right, like the non-possessiveness, the non-hoarding. We want to hoard people, experiences likes, right, smash the like button. We want to hoard all of that. We want to grasp it, we cling to it like our life depends on it, and for some of us it has. But these practices allow us to create a little bit of space there. Yeah, like, oh no, I can detach from the outcome. I don't have to worry about we were talking earlier, right? I don't have to worry about presenting myself to the world and getting the outcome that I want. I can just show up and be unattached.
Speaker 1:And it is really hard. It's so hard, it's really hard, Like, and it's not that you know, I was told that and then I felt better and whatever. But I do think you have to give it some practice and see are you going to be rejected, or do you just think you're going to be rejected?
Speaker 2:Correct Because of fear. And that's the, that's the.
Speaker 2:So if we're talking, about like truthfulness, right, like how much we lie to ourselves. We lie to ourselves that we and we, we do need people, right, like we're wired to be in community. We're not supposed to be silos, you know, without people in our lives. So there's, you know you're also working with, like our biological pull to be in community because that keeps us safe, like that's how we're supposed to interact with the world. So then we tell ourselves these lies, like we're going to be alone and shrivel up and die, right, Like, and it's not even that conscious, it's like on a subconscious level of, if I'm not connected to people, but then so then connection is life source, well then I've got to be xyz to be connected to people.
Speaker 2:Instead of I'm gonna be connected to people, just showing up as my authentic self and offering you my vulnerability, my truth, my pureness, my light, and not having to hide it or, you know, shape it into something else that I think is going to be more digestible for you. It's such an insidious cycle that we get into and traps us and keeps us from being our authentic selves. And then it's like, okay, well, what is my authentic self? You can go down all of these rabbit holes.
Speaker 2:but that's what these teachings are for to be able to go. Huh, what are they? Maybe it's not what I thought, maybe it's not what I was told. Can I get slow down enough, you know? I think that we I don't think that you can become more aware at the speed of light- Agreed Right, so I think you do have to slow down, but that doesn't mean that your whole life has to stop right.
Speaker 2:Like you can still be a busy person and take 20 minutes of your day and kind of go, you know what? I'm not going to schedule myself these 20 minutes and I'm going to look at, kind of. Going back to my egg example, you know, do I like scrambled eggs? Do I not like scrambled eggs? I'm going to make five different kinds of eggs for myself and taste, test them and see, right, like so it can be playful and curious and but it is slowing down enough to start asking questions and exploring yourself, your life.
Speaker 2:How am I harmful to myself? Because I think there's a lot of people out there that are like, I'm not bad to myself, I'm really good to myself. I get a manicure every other week and I do all this self-care and look at, look, I'm good to myself. That's awesome. But, like, what happens in your mind in the quiet moments? Or what happens when you go to sell whatever you're selling and you're like they don't, somebody doesn't buy it. Are you totally fine? Are you okay? Like, do you wonder how you missed it? Do you beat yourself up? Like, oh, I should have just said this instead of that, and then I would have closed the deal. There's really obvious ways that we're harmful and lie to ourselves and you know hoard and are disconnected from source. And then there's really subtle ways that sneak up on you and you're like oh, Because are you like, even like neglecting yourself completely?
Speaker 1:Do you even check in with yourself? Is that kind Correct? Correct Do you? You know even that, yeah, you might not talk shit about yourself to yourself all the time, but like, do you hang out with yourself, Like, do you take time for you?
Speaker 2:It's hard. You do start kind of like looking at it, you're like whoo, there's a lot.
Speaker 1:And then people are like, why there's a lot? And then people are like, why do people even take time to do this? I'm fine, so yeah. So then after that, yeah is the non-stealing?
Speaker 2:yeah I stay. Uh, so non-stealing can be again. There's like this surface level of like well, I didn't steal anything at martin's this afternoon. I paid for all my groceries even at that dumb self-checkout.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for real.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, I did put organic bananas, not the cheaper version of bananas, right, yeah? So there's like that kind of stealing, and then there's a gazillion other forms and so you just kind of like get to start looking at it and going huh, because what are the other words for that one?
Speaker 2:So, being generous, being with what is so, so often. Let's just say you're in a class and you raise your hand and you have a question, and the teacher's like you've got 30 seconds for your question and that doesn't give you enough time. And you're like, well, I'm going to ask my question because I deserve an answer and your question takes a minute and a half, and so you've stolen from other students in the class. You know if that's the structure right? Or I have a meeting here with you today at one o'clock and I decide to show up at 110 because I needed to do something else. And you know I can convince myself. Right, the truthfulness. So how honest am I being with myself? No, I'm doing self-care. I needed to go a little slower this morning, you know. But that's stealing from you, that's stealing your time. When I sit at the red light and I'm scrolling on my phone and me and one, one other car get through but really five other cars could have gotten through I just stole from three people behind me their time to get to where they're going to, because they have to wait for a whole nother light cycle. You know when I'm taking somebody else's ideas and claiming them as my own, you, you know, instead of saying no, I have been taught this stuff from these three teachers and I'm sure they have lots of their teachers right, like, but without like giving credit to where things come from. I mean, there's just, there's so many ways, but so being generous with giving credit where credit's due, I see, when building other people up as a way, you know, propping other people up, I think is a way of practicing a stay on, and not directly but indirectly, like sharing other people's stuff, right, instead of stealing the attention, like all of the attention in a conversation. If you're like kind of hijacking the conversation and constantly talking about yourself, can you really listen? That's a way of practicing, practicing astea, like really listening and being present and gifting somebody your attention, as opposed to stealing all of the attention or time in a conversation.
Speaker 2:I think that practicing presence and generosity with time and energy and that again kind of coming back to yourself, if you're stressed out, can you slow down enough to draw yourself a lovely bath or you know, whatever it is that, without stealing your own energy and giving it all, you know, giving it all away, can you? Can you be generous with yourself and have boundaries? That's another thing. You know, generosity doesn't mean just giving everything away. And so then you're empty and depleted and don't have anything left for the world, right? Because then you've stealing, you've stolen, stealing, stolen from yourself, and you have nothing left for yourself.
Speaker 2:If I sit all day and cook for others and be of service and then I fall into bed and eat a snicker bar, like that was not kind, I'll start out with that. Yeah, always coming back to Ahimsa, but you know, I stole so much of my energy that I didn't have anything to give to myself, so I didn't get to prepare myself a nice meal and sit down and have a cup of tea and go to bed calm, like I just fell into bed depleted. It's probably not setting me up for a great night's sleep, great day tomorrow, and I think, ultimately, like all of this just disconnects us from our light, our like source, right Creator, this idea that we're our oneness and that's what I see all of these practices are just a roadmap map back home to ourselves. I think I I title my teaching when I teach this stuff.
Speaker 1:You know, walking the path like a journey home to yourself, your, your true essence, which is unburdened with all of this stuff because non-stealing seems kind of like you know, okay, well, I'm not late, I'm not like, yeah, I let people talk, whatever, and like it might seem kind of like not as like important as being truthful or whatever, but if you really like spent most of your time being late to everything and know not letting people talk or stealing people's time or whatever, that's like really bad energy.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. That's not good. You can't be doing that, you know. And yes, it might seem a little and it might not seem as crazy as being unkind, but it is a part of it. Like you can't be doing that, Correct?
Speaker 2:And how we're energetically engaging with the world around us. Right, Because?
Speaker 1:if you want connection, that's not gonna really help, you know. And if you want to be connected which we do, which we just talked about, and then you're showing up late all the time and like being self-indulgent, I don't know, Like that's the energy you're putting out there. It takes you away from what you were just saying, like your light and source, and coming home. So it is important to like think about it that way.
Speaker 2:Totally and also like these things. I mean we can kind of justify them. So let's say I went to Michael's and was buying some paintbrushes and the cash register rang up two and I really had three right Like, and I know that but I don't say anything because I'm like michael's, this huge corporation they're gonna really miss 67 cents for that.
Speaker 2:You know blah. Like we can justify ourselves. First of all, like here we are, there's warfare because we're like in this argument inside, so back to ahimsa. We're not being honest, we're not being truthful because we're not saying anything. But when we do have that awareness, even when we justify it like, oh, it's a big, huge corporation, they're not going to miss it, it's still.
Speaker 1:It weighs on you Like it's this little like pluck.
Speaker 2:And then comes, if we're aware, the guilt, the shame, the you know, those thoughts and feelings, and then we start beating ourselves up and then we're down on the spiral and again kind of energetically, even if you don't go all the way down the spiral, it's still there, it's still this violation and somewhere that gets stored.
Speaker 1:And, if you think about it, on a large level of corporations and pharmaceuticals and all of this other stuff that are stealing, insurance companies that are largely stealing, it is an important thing. It has to be mentioned. You know, Huge yes, Like cause you and I are like we're not really stealing, but it is like a thing of like, oh man, it is a thing that goes on.
Speaker 2:Totally, totally. I mean I say it all the time I am, especially in my yoga teaching. I mean I'm chronically. If my class, let's just say, is nine to 10, you can count on that class ending at 10, 10. Like, I'm chronically and I'm stealing 10 minutes of everybody's life. I remember when I was, when Sienna was little, and I would go to this very specific class and the teacher was in that 10 minutes late and I lived much more rigid in a timeline because I had a babysitter and I didn't want to pay for you know an extra half an hour because I didn't
Speaker 2:have the money to pay for the extra half an hour, but I had the money to like, pay for whatever. And then I counted on it ending at 10 o'clock so that I could take the seven minute walk home and be home by 10, 10 or whatever. It was right. And so it seems like no big deal and I do it, and every time I kind of laugh about it or I say I wanna get better, and there's days that I do and I feel really good about it. And then people tell me and I tell myself, oh, no, like we love more time with you, or yeah, you know like, oh, no, it's not that big of a deal. And so then, but it's still, it's there. And I've been talking about this for years. And here I am. Maybe this year will be the year, yeah, but it it is. It's a form of stealing, yeah, and the ripple effect of it, like we don't know.
Speaker 1:We don't know, so then, after that, we have non-access is what it says here, which is oh, the brahmacharya, Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:Brahmacharya, yeah, which was celibacy. And just to kind of say about Sanskrit you know it's not my primary language, yeah, so there's lots of different interpretations. It's not a spoken language right now. You know it's used in certain parts of the world much more than it is here, but I apologize ahead of time for any of these words that I'm butchering. I always tell people you know, because I've had generous teachers that tell me not to beat myself up about it. It's the, you know.
Speaker 2:Knowing the words and knowing the essence of the words is a beautiful thing to bring to your awareness. But you know, to use them and interact with them and giggle at the mishaps is a way. But there are lots of ways to pronounce these words and some people are going to tell you there's a right and a wrong and I apologize if I'm saying any of these in an offensive way. It's not ever my intention. I do hold them all very sacred, but I do like passing along, kind of do your best, like it's all we can do. Yeah, yeah, um, but yes, so the I think deborah adele describes it as non-excess right, like yeah, or is in the little intro, just basically using them in like non-sanskrit ways.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly so and how, you know it was presented to me is is like this celibacy, walking with god, if god is a hard word for you walking with source, walking with creator, walking with the universe, and it's just. It's about bringing that energy into all things. Right, like bringing your the best version of yourself and not expending all of this energy in excess. Right, can I show up without having to spend four hours to look just right, right, can I, just can I show up? And here I am.
Speaker 2:And I think, especially in kind of today's day and age, so many of us get just paralyzed with having to have things just so that we miss out on like living and experiencing, because we're so jammed up in our minds, in our calendars, like that we don't get to just be and be with our oneness and the awareness of that. So, again, kind of slowing things down and recognizing goodness and the love and the light that every single human being is walking around with. You know, can you walk by the homeless person that's begging you for food with kindness and compassion, and that doesn't mean that you have to give them dollars or you know, whatever, whatever, but can you look them in the eye and say whatever, whatever. But can you look them in the eye and say, hi, how are you today? Can you recognize your goodness at all times? Because if we can recognize our own goodness and our own kind of connection to source, like it's so big and so vast and we're such incredible beings when we again strip away all this nonsense in our heads, if we can recognize that in ourselves, we can certainly recognize that in others, and so we can pause and have a moment of humanity with another, being like see their light.
Speaker 2:We don't know what their story is, we don't know what led them to where they are, and really it's none of our damn business, right? Can we just see how good we are, so that then we can see the goodness in others? And again I'm using good, the goodness in others. And again I'm using good, not in the sense of like good and bad, the duality, but our connectedness. I tiptoe around the word God because I know that there's such a Christian connection to that and a lot of people struggle with that, to be perfectly honest. And I'm using the word God in, not a limited.
Speaker 1:Exactly, it's not a man in the sky.
Speaker 2:It's not a limited sense. I'm using it in the sense of it is everything like the entire universe. It's just a short, easy word to use. So can we see that in ourselves? Can we see that? It's like pure awe. Can we see that in others and can we be in that presence and stay connected to it without distracting ourselves with having to put the just right outfit on and 85 layers of makeup or this amount of carbs or this amount of protein, having all of the rigidity and rules around? What makes us whole or okay or acceptable in the world is when we strip everything away. We strip away all of our stuff, and that includes thoughts and feelings like the purest essence of who we are. Can we be with that? Can we exist in that space? And can we see that in others? Can we have compassion and, you know, like all of these things?
Speaker 1:because, like, basically, like the whole, like celibacy, that definition that went with it is basically being like not giving away your life force. Yes, because if you give all of this away, which then would be excessive, right? Oh totally, and then you can't be connected to source because you've given all of your shit away. Is that kind of like?
Speaker 2:you know, looking at like my little writing for the teaching that I did, and you know, it's, it's, it is, it's, it's, it's. How connected can we be to source in any given moment?
Speaker 1:Because if there's too much access, we can't be correct. If there's too much stuff in the way that we deem more important or more that we're into more than we can't connect, correct.
Speaker 2:You know I mean you look at the issues of addictions in our world right now. Right, it's filling the holes.
Speaker 1:Okay, that excessiveness right.
Speaker 2:That, like because we're disconnected from our wholeness, our source. We have these holes and we fill them with all of these things to then try to feel whole. Yes, we fill them with alcohol, drugs, sex work, exercise, food. Yes, Like the list is endless.
Speaker 1:Yep, so then celibacy would be not doing those things. It's not Correct.
Speaker 2:Yes, Not filling the void. In the filling of the void.
Speaker 1:Yes, because the void we would be filled if we were connected and walking with God, but instead we're doing it with our self-soothing techniques, correct?
Speaker 2:Yes, correct, and because and it's that disconnection which is why we want the things, and it's that disconnection which is why we want the things correct, yeah, so if we're able to be connected to that source, to our own sense of godliness, right, yeah, uh, then we don't have to yes, right, but we'll never know that we even need it in the first place.
Speaker 1:Well, we will, because we'll still feel uneasy but we don't know that we need it. And if there's all this excess like correct, that we're filling up correct when the one thing we need, we aren't know that we need it?
Speaker 2:and if there's all this excess like correct, that we're filling up correct when the one thing we need, we aren't getting because we're exactly because we're too busy, or there's a wound or there's hurt or there's pain or there's going back to all of the other things, how, how awful we are to ourselves if we're constantly beating ourselves up and feeling like crap in and out and I'm not enough or I'm too much, or you know all of the things that we do to ourselves. We're gonna feel empty, we're gonna feel incomplete, we're gonna feel like there's something wrong with us, and so we're going to reach for things to fill ourselves up and shopping right like, yeah, I mean shopping therapy.
Speaker 1:What I mean it's all the things it's like, it's on your phone, it's tv, it's caffeine, it's anything. Even things that are a good thing in excess can become a bad thing it's the motivation behind it yeah, right, correct. And like the walking with God and the connecting with God is sort of because you're like, well, how am I supposed to do that? Like because God can be. You know, even that word can be like not resonant for a lot of people or what does that even feel like?
Speaker 1:Or is that just in a church? Like what? What is that? But to me, when I hear that and when I hear all of this, it's kind of like if you're too busy filling up let's say you're drinking or you're, you know, taking drugs or whatever you're never going to have that real connection with another person as genuine and as pure as you could, which is what you were talking about earlier, about like the light in each of us. You're never going to feel that because you're drunk or because you're on drugs or because you know you're always busy, maybe you're filling up on busyness so you never have this walk of nature and look at the tree and know that like we're all connected, you know.
Speaker 2:And definitely you won't have that with others, but you also won't have that with yourself. Correct, right, right, like you'll never get to experience that that is there.
Speaker 2:And you know, going back to kind of like this idea of walking with God, whatever that is for anybody right, it's just this idea that there's this greatness, that doesn't really, in all honesty, for me. I don't know that it needs a label, I don't know that it needs a word. It's just the essence of that thing that there isn't even a word for, I think is more of what it is. There isn't a word.
Speaker 1:And so we scramble.
Speaker 2:And so we go, ah, I don't know what to call it, right, like, but it's, it's. It's not something that we know in our mind, it's something that we feel in our soul, yeah, and so being in touch with that feeling where you feel like all's okay in the world, like everything is is fine, we don't need to fill up, we don't need to busy drink, you know, whatever it is that you reach for and all of us have these things, right, like we all have our things I would be hard pressed, like I would love to meet somebody that lives in our world today that doesn't have a phone addiction. Right, I will say, all day long, I have one, yeah, and so it's. Can I become aware and meet myself with kindness, right, can I go? Oh, look at there you go.
Speaker 2:Steph, you know, just reached for your phone again. Yeah, look at that. You know, like, maybe you can put it down and not reach for it, you know, am I willing to? And then be honest, right, am I willing to put a tracker on my phone to look at how much I really do reach for my phone? It's really easy on Apple phones, like you just click this little thing and it'll tell you how many times you pick up your phone in one single day? Am I willing to be honest with that? And I'm sure there's people listening like, oh, I don't have that problem. I, I like, I please call me.
Speaker 1:I want to know you, I know seriously, yeah, um, and then you're stealing your time from yourself exactly, and then you're not connected and other people and others, you're just, yeah, whatever, you're not connecting with others because you're stealing yes, that's a really good one too and you're not connected to that essence.
Speaker 2:Yes, you're distracted, and I think that that's what all of the like these things are, right, like all of these addictions, just distract us from the truth, from our kindness, from our love, from our wholeness. Because my experience I mean as a mental health therapist I kind of like see the world through that lens my experience is that life is traumatizing, and that's not just my personal experience, but right Like it is, and we experience wounds in our lives and some of us experience a lot of wounds and some of us just experience a little bit of wounds. But it's traumatizing. And so we have these wounds and what do we do with them? More often than not, we're wired to like feel good and okay and safe. So we cover them up or deny that they're there or mask them or pour something on it to distract ourselves from feeling that we're not taught to sit with grief, we're not taught that it's okay to be sad. We're not. Let's fix it, let's change it, let's not let it be.
Speaker 2:And I think that one of the biggest things about you know, brahmacarya, is being with what is Letting it be. If you're sad, be sad. If you're happy, be happy, not needing that excessiveness to distract from what is. And you know, quite often, if you whittle it down to the very core, it's that essence of wonder and awe and amazingness, like we are such precious human beings. Our essence is beautiful. Yeah, sometimes it's easy to see that and sometimes it's really hard to see that, but it's there. And I'm thinking, like currently, about people that I would really struggle to see that in and, you know, challenging myself like, okay, can I see this in them? And it's hard work, but I do believe these things to be true.
Speaker 1:So now I can return to ahimsa again and be kinder. And it begins.
Speaker 2:Exactly, it always comes back to Ahimsa for me, like it just always comes back to that again and again and again. Here we are, back at Ahimsa, exactly. You know, if we look at our world today and it's so divisive, right, it's so split, and that's the reality of our world, especially right now. Like we, right, it's so split and that's the reality of our world, especially right now. We just had a change in administration in our country and there's a lot of division and so trying to think about these things, right, can I be kind? Can I be honest? Can I see my own goodness and the goodness in everybody else? You know, what would it look like if, if we were, if we were all practicing these things, right, I think our country would certainly look a little different, not one side over another. Every human being took responsibility for these lessons or these teachings, and started to incorporate them and integrate them over time, like we talked about. I do think that, you know, maybe it's naive and silly, but I do think that we could all get along.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree, but that would also mean abandoning greed and looking out for ourselves and wanting things our way, which is sometimes hard to do on a very small scale, in a small group of people, much less an entire country. But I think it's important to work towards it and towards taking care of incorporating these things in our individual lives and then allowing time and the ripple effect to unfold. Let source do its thing. Yeah, trusting I think there's a wisdom in life that none of us have any concept of really being able to grasp, and I know for me that when I can get in flow with that level of trust, life is a whole lot more comfortable. Trusting the wisdom of life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that obviously it's healthy and good to have, you know, righteous anger and grief and you know there is no moral value on our feelings and our emotions and the things that are not right and wrong and things like that. You know, while also trusting and doing what you personally can for yourself and your community and in your life.
Speaker 2:A thousand percent you know, yeah, and that's a really good point. I think that when all any of us have any control over is ourselves, it's an illusion to think that we're going to be able to have any control over another person. It's just false.
Speaker 2:So all I can do is take care of myself and be in line right Practicing these principles Nonviolence, truthfulness right, right, and I know that I show up a much better version of myself not even a better version, but maybe the most authentic version right Of myself, and that's all any of us can do. Yeah, and that that's all any of us can do. Yeah, and sometimes that means having a voice, but can we have a voice, you know, non-violently? Look at gandhi, right?
Speaker 1:I think that a lot of times people scream and yell about non-violence and it's really, really, really challenging, totally, because I think that you can speak your truth. That may be something that's opposing someone else in a way that isn't violent.
Speaker 2:A thousand percent and if you really think about it, like if I think about conversations, hard conversations that I've had, where I've had a voice about things that I believe strongly in to an opposing person, they don't hear me when I'm yelling and they certainly aren't going to hear be open to change if I'm screaming and yelling and cussing and and I like to call it being passionate about something, but yeah, but it certainly puts people off.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think about, like my daughter, you know, or people that, like I really want to have an impact on and I can get fired up, really fired up about things that has not created more change than when I can maintain calm, maintain kindness, keep my mind open and have a conversation that I believe in. When I show up that way, more change occurs than when I show up fired up. I love having conversations in all honesty with people that believe things very differently than I do, and sometimes my mind gets changed and sometimes their mind gets changed.
Speaker 1:But that only happens in the conversations when both people are able to maintain a sense of calm and connectedness to their own center, their own truth, kindness because, at the end of the day, if, as long as the thing that is happening that we're talking about or whatever, is in accordance to non-violence, so if it's something that is not violent, can we both have compassion for each other and also think different things.
Speaker 1:I believe yes, because, like I, can have a completely different view than you but also be like I totally get your view and I respect your view and we can still be cool as long as the thing isn't a violent thing towards another, like because I feel like that is kind of where, like the line gets kind of tricky, like correct. If the thing that we're talking about and if we're talking about politics or whatever, even like a conflict with somebody or somebody, like if the thing that we're talking about and if we're talking about politics or whatever, even like a conflict with somebody or somebody whatever, if the thing is actually causing harm at large, then it's not okay in any aspect, absolutely correct. So I do see a lot of people will be like you know, I can't just like agree, like I can't, like I don't even see how you could think that because it's causing harm, which I think that is very justified, and that is kind of hard to be like. How can I have compassion for your point of view? And that's causing harm.
Speaker 2:A thousand percent. But I will say, or, and I will say that again, like I can get very passionate and fired up about things and there was a time where I was talking about something that causes harm, blatant harm, and I was ranting about it with a lot of passion and probably a lot of bad words and, yes, it's totally unacceptable. But if I truly am wanting to create change in the person that's creating harm, I'm not going to do it by screaming and yelling, like that is, you know, like I understand. So I came upon a domestic violence situation and you know I threw myself in the middle of it because I was like this absolutely has to end now and you know was elevated and it did.
Speaker 2:And but if I'm actually and so that instance stopped, but if I actually wanted to create change in that offender, let's say, and I have worked with violent offenders, I have worked with sexual abus, I have worked with sexual abusers, I have also worked with victims of sexual abuse, so if I'm actually looking to create change in an offender, in a violent person, it's not going to happen through me being aggressive, through me being harmful, through me being violent, in my words, there's potential of it happening if I am able to practice these principles, if I can be honest, and that's not being wishy-washy and just being like, oh, it's fine. I understand you're angry and you took it out on your kid. No, it's calling the spade the spade. That's unacceptable. But let's explore what's going on in you. I love that you said all of that, because it's calling the spade the spade. That's unacceptable.
Speaker 1:But let's explore what's going on in you. Let's right Like I love that you said all of that, because it's so true Right Like people don't behave in violent ways for no reason for the most part.
Speaker 2:Are there people that do, and I would actually argue that they weren't like that is contributed by their life experience? Like I would argue that. But people aren't like just evil and awful and violent, right? Like it's just not how we're born, right? Life happens and people and then people show up that way. So, you know, are we willing to have enough love and compassion to start looking at those things like what? What made this person that way?
Speaker 1:instead of like that guy's just an asshole, exactly right like yeah maybe because that's my girl, whatever like and not true correct, exactly like. That's how this works.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly, yeah, you know and can I be so in touch with my own goodness, because I've done awful things in my life. I've done things I'm not proud of. I've also had horrific things happen to me and it's not an excuse, it's a reality and those things interact together and they are directly connected. And so if I am able to heal my own wounds and not feel awful and find forgiveness and love for myself in the things that generate shame and guilt, and then also be able to see my purity, my light, my goodness, and if I can kind of work through all of that, then I have a different understanding of whomever I come encounter with right like, and I can say if I'm willing to slow down enough and not just go with my first judgment and go okay, hold on, yeah, let's, let's look at this with a wide angle lens instead of a zoom lens, looking at the one thing that's pissing me off or upsetting me or that I find unacceptable.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then it gives us like you, the person so much more freedom because you don't need to be so whipped up about the way that they're being or whatever. When you can find compassion towards other people, it kind of gives you a little bit more freedom and stops you from having to feel so much emotion towards what they're doing that you have no control of Correct you know, correct, and that goes right.
Speaker 2:A pari graha, like you know, I think that there's so much just acceptance. And again going back to like, the non-attachment, the non-possessiveness, the non-clinging, you know, that comes from acceptance. Okay, it is what it is and not like from this victimized like, oh, it is what it is, not that. But here's the facts. And now, how am I going to show up for these facts? Can I show up with kindness? Can I show up with honesty?
Speaker 1:can I show up connected to source because if you're clinging and attached to all these things, it's getting in the way of so much of the other things that we just talked about and there's no point correct like we don't own people, we don't own things, like nothing is really ours, and learning those lessons is so hard so yeah, I mean, I say that, you know, I say that, but they obviously like, we love our partners, we love our family, we love our kids, we love our animals, we love our community favorite shirt yeah, our favorite shirt, our favorite.
Speaker 1:You know, our house, like whatever, like you know, and so that is like a crazy practice to think about as humans, of not clinging on to or the way things were or you know whatever, totally, but the non-possessiveness of this is huge.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that you know, like that idea of of being okay with the human experience, we are gonna love the things that we love, and and again, like going back to ahimsa, like I just kind of just consistently go back to that right, like it's like this layering. I think actually, cyndia said it in our class that I did that. She was in and I loved it and I will always remember how beautiful it was. You know, because so many of these things overlap right and it's kind of hard to see what goes where, because so many of these things overlap right and it's kind of hard to see what goes where. And I kept talking about coming home, home to ourselves, and she's like, it's like each one of these things is a piece of a nest, like that each of this is important piece of the nest, of the whole. And I was like, oh, I love that so much and and I love being able to pass that on she, her, she was so wise and had such beautiful things to offer. But it is it's like just like we are all connected, all of these things are interconnected and they're layered and they they kind of layer in together to create this nest, this sense of of home, layer in together to create this nest, this sense of of home in ourselves when we're in practice with them.
Speaker 2:I was talking about, you know, kind of continuously coming back to ahimsa, this, this idea of non-violence in, when we do get possessive or like, oh, I really wanted that thing, like again, we don't have to feel guilty or shame ourselves or beat ourselves up. Right, oh, I didn't get. You know, if you're putting an offer in on a house, right, and you really like, wanted that house, it's okay to be disappointed, it's okay. It's okay to own things. It does not mean that you have to go get rid of everything you own, it's okay to have a preference.
Speaker 2:Correct, like it's okay to own things and want things and like things. It's those things not owning you, right? So that there's there's a looseness, there's a fluidity to they're going to come and go. I just recently had to put a you know let go of a beloved pet, and it's awful. That doesn't mean I failed at a party. Yeah, yeah, it's that. I'm, I'm aware of it and I cherish her and miss her still. And you know, um, am I still able to function in this world? Can I still love my other animals? Can I still be present? Can I still be kind? Or is that gonna harden me over and I'm gonna be like I don? I don't ever, you know, like it's going to shut my heart off. I don't ever want pets again. I don't want ever, right? Then then she owns me, or the grief owns me.
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, but it's the clinging to her, it's not being okay with what is. No individual thing or experience creates suffering. Our suffering comes from our not wanting things to be as they are Our preference we want it different. And we cling to that. Yes, all the time. Look at all of the things we get, but it's pointless. Yeah, but look at how much we spend our lives bent out of shape over right things that we want.
Speaker 1:I wanted barbecue sauce not honey mustard.
Speaker 2:Literally like, some things are really big and some things are really small, and it's it's our clinging to what we want and how we want it. Can we let go? Can we exhale?
Speaker 1:With practice. Yes, yeah, you know.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, and isn't that the most beautiful thing of all of this is?
Speaker 1:we just get to keep practicing, yeah, Things will keep coming up and then we get to look at them and be like, okay, that would be good, but I'm just going to cause me so much more suffering. You know, if that's what I want and I cling to it or whatever, how can I approach it without you know that, or whatever it is, you know that lesson comes a lot in parenting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know I'm thinking about like birth, like I'm like, yeah, I'd like this to go this way, but if I cling to wanting the birth to be that way, it probably won't be and then I'll be disappointed and that's just silly and because I know to not cling, I know not to, and that's the time right.
Speaker 2:You engaging with these things over a period of time allows you the space to come to this experience today and go wow. I'm aware that I do have a preference.
Speaker 1:That is my. How much am I going to let?
Speaker 2:right, like that is my truth and how much am I going to let that gripping? Am I going to grip into that and so that if there's goes any other way, it's a horrible experience. You know, like where's the violence? Yeah, or am I going to be? Can I practice these principles as that experience happens, because you've been continued to practice them and have this awareness, and you might catch yourself and it might happen exactly how you want it to, and it might happen not, and we'll see opposite, right, who knows, or somewhere in between, but you get to show up and go. Okay, here we are. This is it? Yeah, exactly so much.
Speaker 2:There's so much richness. Well, thank you. I love being able to like have a space where we can talk about these me too, right. Thank you so much for creating this and, yeah, creating this space to be able to talk about all the amazing things that the different women bring to this podcast.
Speaker 1:It's so, it's so amazing thank you, thanks for being a part of it, thanks for listening, and, who knows, there might be a yamas and niyama study going on at some point, perhaps but I am called to that.
Speaker 2:I am called to that, I am getting really pulled to that. It's just kind of working on some logistics and timings, but it's definitely it's.
Speaker 1:It's percolating for sure and then people can find you on Instagram at yogatravelheal.
Speaker 2:Yep, it might be yogatravelheal Okay.
Speaker 1:That'll be in the show notes.
Speaker 2:Yep, I do have a new website Nice Cool yogatravelhealcom. That has all of my things.
Speaker 1:And then we'll be back with the Niyamas, niyamas a whole other conversation. Yay, alright. Thanks, stephanie. Thanks, laura, outro Music you.