Know Ya Flow
Women in flow, share what they know. Hear women's stories of how they've grown, what they know, and how they are living in flow.
Know Ya Flow
Suffering in Silence - Jackie's Story of Healing
Today on the podcast we have Jackie Dawson back !! 🎙️ @jackied1023
Jackie is a mother, yoga teacher, deep feeler and an amazing friend.
(If you haven’t already - you can listen to our first episode we did together Yoga, Embodiment and Coming Home to Yourself)
I love Jackie so much. We talk back and forth about reality TV (how much we love it) and then we move into talking about the more serious stuff - the battle she was having with her body and within her womb for the past few years.
Jackie was bleeding non stop for way too long.
She went to doctor after doctor just to find out NOTHING.
She began to minimize her pain, minimize her feelings and believe that there was never going to be any relief to this problem.
And guys let’s be real it is NOT okay to be bleeding all the time. That is crazy!! Obviously Jackie deserved to live a life without this being a constant thing for her. She just needed the right doctor to listen and care for her.
Together we talk about this situation and the resolution that eventually came.
We go on many other side tangents like…
- Are there lessons in everything? Do we always need a lesson at the end of things?
- Why it’s important for women to connect with one another
- How sharing our stories is so important
- Red Thread Lineage
- Does it really matter wtf we end up doing with our lives? Can we just be happy with our families and children? Is it REALLY over after 40?!
This episode really presents as a conversation between friends.Thank you Jackie for being vulnerable and honest about your journey sharing it with us.
All right. So we're here today with Jackie again. Hi, Jackie, hi. It's like a little over a year since we like. I wonder, when was that?
Speaker 2:one. Oh, I think it was two years or two years.
Speaker 1:Was it 2022 in like December, or was it like January 2023? No, it was in.
Speaker 2:November or December, so 22. When did you start this podcast?
Speaker 1:I launched it in April of 2023, 2023, then 22 or may it was may, because it was right before hannah's wedding and I wanted to make sure that I got her and colton's episode out there, and then yours was after that yeah, in june. Oh my gosh, that's such a long time ago I know a year, a little over a year, since it launched yeah, wow, congratulations. Well, thank you wow know your flow podcast. You're an avid listener. Thank you very much.
Speaker 2:And I have lots of opinions. All good, every single episode.
Speaker 1:I know it's like if I don't get a text from you, I'm like oh no, was that one not good? Did she not like that one? Did it not matter?
Speaker 2:I hope you don't really think that. No, I really don't.
Speaker 1:You don't need to tell her, no, I love it everything I love it because I mean the truth is, you, I'm I'm like really putting time and effort into getting this out to the world, and so nobody has to say anything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, I think of it like you don't need the validation, but it's nice to have it to know if you're like doing does anyone care.
Speaker 1:Yes, if people care or if they want that yeah, because that would be weird if I was just having a podcast people were listening to it and literally no crickets. No one has said a single word. That'd be so weird. I mean, that doesn't happen, obviously people are like. I mean, I imagine that so many people that you know are like it's so good yeah, they're like oh yeah, I listened to that episode with so-and-so, that was really cool or whatever yeah and I love that there's some that resonate with a lot of people and then, like some, that resonate with others yeah.
Speaker 1:I feel like you love a deep real life story.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:I love a story too, because I also just love peeking into people's lives me too.
Speaker 2:That's probably why we both love reality tv. Literally is because I do. I love and I feel like there are episodes where you're putting it out and it's some topic and I'm like this is not going to apply to me, but the person's story always applies to me yeah, and it's fun too because a lot of the synchronicities and like the patterns and everybody's lives are so funny yeah, like when you're talking about something and then it comes up in the podcast or you see it on tv or you hear it in another.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I totally agree. It is very weird.
Speaker 1:We are all connected we really are better or worse. But think about if you never heard somebody else share their story. You would think you were the only one, which obviously, oh my gosh, obviously we know that, you know yes no, I think there's so much comfort in hearing people's stuff and how they get through things because it does.
Speaker 2:It gives you the reminder that we're not. No one is in this life unscathed. Everyone is complicated and messy and and it's all good you know, yeah, it's all good, it's all good.
Speaker 1:I get more annoyed if I can tell that people are not being real about it, cause I'm like, let's I know, because you're an empath right. I guess, which is so funny because, like who is? It yeah, but there are people so I guess that means that you are.
Speaker 2:I am too, and somebody told me I can't remember who, but it was like when you feel somebody's vibe as an empath, to be something and they're trying to tell you that it's not that or it's something else, you feel unsafe and then you don't like that person, and that's how I feel or maybe you don't like the person, but you just can't be around.
Speaker 1:I'm not gonna do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like you feel unsafe, so you can't be around them so you can't share things and I feel that deeply like.
Speaker 1:But I can feel that in listening to people talk too like on tv or in podcasts and stuff yeah, because even reality tv you can be watching it and perfect example okay okay, chloe, okay, chloe kardashian, oh okay, okay, chloe kardashian, just like hiding trauma, yeah, pretending that she's fine.
Speaker 1:I do think that it's fine that she wants to be a mom, yes, and is living her life in calabasas and that's how she's coping, so that's cool. She's being true to that. Also, kim, too, in terms of like she's masking and like I mean, you had a pretty traumatic experience, kim, with kanye, uh yeah, and you're just now this is what blows my mind about this is you're just now going to therapy. What have you been doing?
Speaker 2:you have more money than god you can literally do anything your royalty, and you're just now exploring this yeah, I feel like they are an awful example though well, maybe a good example of like the phoniness, I guess like I think there are aspects of them that are real and that's the parts of their show that is so yeah, but I guess I mean like I can watch them and see that they're like bullshitting right does that bother you, though do you still want to watch?
Speaker 1:or do you have a better example?
Speaker 2:okay, I have an example of somebody being real is the real housewives of New York okay, yes and Dorinda Ramona, sonia Luann, like all of them, like the OGs, right, okay, we like them, even though they have done. Am I allowed to curse? Of course they have done the most fucked up things to each other. Yeah said fucked up stuff, but we still like them yeah, I do.
Speaker 2:I can speak for myself and they're funny and I want to see what they're doing, even though they're like wrong and bad sometimes. But I think it's because they are unapologetically who they are and they can be like I'm sorry and you feel like it's real, because they're not bullshitting at all, totally. But then when you watch a show where people are so produced, they're producing themselves to like be a certain way and you know, the minute those cameras go off they're gonna like rage out.
Speaker 1:It's infuriating and hard to watch yeah because you want the realness, that's like, yeah, that's a really good point into their life. Yeah, the only reason it works for the kardashians, I think, is because they have so much money and it's ridiculous yeah, like I look at that more of of like a set, like you know, watching selling sunset yeah, that's more produced they have lots of clothes yeah it's pretty to look at and it's in that way it's really interesting, but like it's not my heart and soul, I'm not gonna watch that and feel connected to them in any sort of way.
Speaker 2:You know, yeah exactly.
Speaker 1:But then there's situations with reality tv where you'll be watching what they're doing which I think I was thinking of this too where you're like watching what they're saying but you know the underlying, like what's going on. Like I'm trying to think of like Love Island, but I was thinking a little bit of Love Undercover. I don't think I ever watched that, oh gosh.
Speaker 2:Okay, I know it's like the one show I didn't watch. Okay, let's think of a love island example. Okay, you can tell when somebody goes on these shows that they just want the following on instagram to make money. Yeah, like they're not there for love, kendall kendall he was literally saying love island, uk stuff was he? See, I'm not that. I mean I've watched seasons before we've talked about I'm gutted, I'm gutted.
Speaker 1:Okay, people in america don't say they're gutted, yeah, or tick all the boxes.
Speaker 2:That's another thing. There was something else. Now that you said that it's on the tip of my, yeah, I'm buzzing. I'm buzzing right now, okay, again that is a love island slang.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like, okay, I guess, like with kendall, I can tell kendall sucks.
Speaker 2:I could tell you that kendall sucked right off the bat me too, like immediately his demeanor, and I don't know why at the.
Speaker 1:I don't know why at the reunion they were going for nicole did you watch the reunion? I did not, okay, sorry, I went to be too much time and then and now it feels like irrelevant to my life so long story short basically, I think I saw a clip on tmz, yeah so something happened with kendall where, like I guess like a video was leaked where he was just like whatever being whatever and then nicole.
Speaker 1:He asked him about it and he, or like he told nicole basically an untruth. So nicole was basically like I can't trust you, I can't trust you, I can't trust you. And they were all basically being like come on, nicole, he literally like apologized to you. What all is he gonna do?
Speaker 2:blah, blah, and I don't know, I don't I think it's not fair me, because she was obvious. Well, she was almost completely real sticking to her guns. Because she should have broken up with him.
Speaker 1:Because I think I saw where they were still together yeah, they've broken up, but they like haven't broke up with her. What?
Speaker 2:yeah, her thing could be an insecurity thing for not breaking up with him. But I do agree if you're telling an untruth, so you're lying. That's a red flag also. I believe all of them watch that back. They see all the other things they're not in, like the adrenaline, the the bubble of it all. They can see the behavior and I feel like it speaks to or feel the vibe of it I was listening to watch what crap ends and they were basically being like ben and ronnie we love you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, seriously and they were basically being like look, this is what happened. Nicole got out of the villa and realized that kendall's kind of douchey and that the people didn't like him, and so it kind of turned her off from him. And then he did that and she got even more of a neck yeah, exactly I was so pissed that she okay, we'll talk about love island next.
Speaker 1:But I was so pissed that she, okay, we'll talk about Love Island next. But I was so pissed that she was in a couple with Kendall, because she really and that Kendall was such a whiny baby because she really could have had something hot with Harrison for a minute. He was into her.
Speaker 2:Yes, I thought she was the nicest. She seemed the most genuinely nice.
Speaker 1:Yes, I like Nicole, I like her a lot.
Speaker 2:And I feel like maybe that's what we were picking up on, that she is like she feels her feelings you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:And it's true to herself and was like confident, even though she is has insecurities. But her dances were like when she would have to do the challenges and like dance and stuff.
Speaker 2:She just seemed like a very real person, which is, yeah, weird, because it was love island yeah, but janae is also hilarious.
Speaker 1:I love janae so funny.
Speaker 2:I thought she was really real well. The people that I liked. I did not like kayla.
Speaker 1:I did not like I liked live to an extent now I don't like her very much I don't understand how her and kayla are not bored hanging out with each other. How can you like hanging out with another female that much?
Speaker 2:I don't know, and they're just doing the same stuff, bopping around being.
Speaker 1:They don't have anything to say. It's over over. It's not deep at all, there's nothing going on, did you? Yeah, okay, but anyway. So, other than watching reality TV, but back to how we started.
Speaker 2:Okay, I like reality TV because it peeks into people's lives. I like your podcast when people talk about their hearts, because I don't know it gives everyone permission to share their hearts, then yeah, and I don't know it gives everyone permission to share their hearts, then yeah, and I don't think you need it. But it's nice to have to know that other people, it resonates with other people because I do think it's important.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thank you yeah, I think it's important, but some people don't want to go very deep, which is fine and not like yes or listen to deep things, or whatever. I mean yeah, and we've talked about that a thousand times about how some people don't have the need to feel like they want to help others, which honestly, which is weird, but I do feel like it makes me feel less crazy about wanting to because, or less like what's the point, or less like my ego's involved, because if I'm like, no, I can't let this go, I can't put this down, then it really must be important and it must be a part of my soul's journey well sometimes.
Speaker 2:Sometimes I can gaslight myself because I want to help people. Obviously, I feel like my heart is here to serve the world and make it a better place. How silly, or?
Speaker 1:you know that sounds.
Speaker 2:But gaslight myself and be like what's the point? Yeah, why am I doing this? Me too, am I doing it because I want some sort of satisfaction of somebody saying thank you, good job, which is a really dark hole to go down. But it's true, there are times where I'm like I want to help so bad, because I never want anybody to feel bad. I want everyone to feel happy all the time, and I know that that's not real life and that people have to struggle and it's part of our journey. But it's a scary thing to think about, thinking that I only want to do that just for, like, the satisfaction of somebody being like wow, that was great, thank you, wow, you really helped me, and I don't think that that's completely true, but it's nice to hear do you know what I mean? Yeah, and I think knowing that some people aren't here to be like a servant to others kind of enhances that fact that that might not be true and I am isolating myself yeah, hopefully not, because I thought everybody kind of had that thing.
Speaker 1:But the more that I sort of like go through life, I realize that some people just want to chill and live their life and vibe, which is great, because we all can't be. Honestly, it sounds nice sometimes. Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2:Because it can be exhausting to share and help people or to be so vulnerable and open. It always feels so important for me to show up as I am good and bad, but that is a hard thing to do but the opposite of that is what we were just talking about, which is not it? No, it wouldn't be true to myself if I was just showing up to check boxes or just get shit done, and that's not why I'm here but it sounds nice, yeah, it seems easier, but maybe it's not.
Speaker 2:I don't know. Yeah, I know, ignorance is bliss, I think, but it's not.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like it seems easier, but maybe it's not, I don't know. Yeah, I know, ignorance is bliss, I think, but it's not, it's just hiding it and then you're just like angry and not having freedom and joy and love in your life. You're having the lower emotions.
Speaker 1:I feel like probably more often Because I mean don't get me wrong we all go through as much as we're sitting and peace, and we love going deep and being and sharing and being vulnerable. At the end of the day, there's also guys for the feel like the past two weeks my body is hurt and I've been angry and frustrated and annoyed and you know all that.
Speaker 2:What happened to you?
Speaker 1:too many, too many things going on so I worked all week. I've been working more because I have like travel coming up yeah, so I like worked all week and then we immediately left and went to cape cod for the weekend, and then we came back and then worked all week on one yeah, and going too hard and that sucks when you there's no other choice, like it's just like a moment and yeah like you sometimes, you, you can't just stop so then I just made sure that last night I like did a little breath work and then this morning I went to yoga.
Speaker 2:It really doesn't take that much to bounce back if you're intentional about it, I think, but you just have to positive of having the awareness exactly is that, even though ignorance is bliss when you know, it's like when stuff pops up, then you have the awareness to know what you need to do yeah, or know what you need, or know that something's wrong yeah like find a way to figure it out and to sit in it. I feel like before having the awareness, you just feel like shit and you have no idea why. So then you end up taking it out on other people and it's like this bad ripple effect right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, your shit becomes everybody else's shit yeah, so it's like not bliss no, it isn't. Why is that a? Saying because it can kind of apply.
Speaker 2:I guess it can yeah but yeah.
Speaker 1:So I mean you can teach classes and nobody say anything and you're still it was worth it gosh.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a bonus if somebody says something nice, exactly because even when somebody says something nice, I'm like did they really mean that, which is so dumb? But yeah, that's my human. I feel like you can always catch a vibe, you know if it felt good or not, and even if it didn't, doesn't matter yeah, it's all good.
Speaker 1:You did your best at the time and if you didn't do better next time but I don't really feel like that ever yeah, I mean not to toot my own horn or anything.
Speaker 2:I feel like when I go to teach a yoga class, there are some days I completely disconnect from my own body yeah, my own stuff and I'm just totally present and holding the space and teaching. That it doesn't. Yeah, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1:It is nice. A lot of times it makes me feel so much better. It's so crazy.
Speaker 2:Last.
Speaker 1:Friday I was about to teach and I was like I don't know what the hell I'm gonna teach these people.
Speaker 2:I have no plan. Yeah, I know, there's like magic in that.
Speaker 1:I, yeah, I know magic in that, I know. But except for the days that it feels because I'm also like about to start my period, so my mind feels very like foggy and stuff, so it didn't really feel intuitively fun. It felt it didn't feel magical at the time.
Speaker 2:It felt stressful I'm an idiot and I don't before. Yeah, like right before, like I'm like oh god, I don't even know.
Speaker 1:I just wish I could go home. I don't want to do this blah blah. I haven't. I feel that way more often than not yeah, and I hadn't practiced in a really long time and I think that really will get like you haven't practiced or you've been out of practice I'm like I don't even remember what this is you know, yeah, but you felt good afterwards, yeah I felt so much better what about during?
Speaker 1:yeah, I felt good. I was like oh yeah, this I know what to do, no matter what there is something that happens where everything fades away and I don't know.
Speaker 2:I don't think it's just the space, because I've taught in other spaces and I felt like that too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the group of the class can be really enriching, though I feel like sometimes, when you have a solid your friends, I always say like, oh yeah, my friends came today.
Speaker 2:You know, when you have a solid group of people and they're not my friends, they just come yeah, you're right, because there was a class recently where it was only a couple people and I didn't know them at all, and I think one of them was new to the studio too, and it felt different. It took me a longer time to get in the groove and then afterwards I felt good, but it's still yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you feel kind of like uneasy. Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2:Especially if they leave so fast.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're like oh gay, today Exactly Sometimes it's not about me. Yeah, exactly, I know so, yeah. So what has been going on since last time we chatted so much, though? Really so many things, so much, so many things, so much. I think the biggest thing is you had a pretty big surgery. I did, yes, and I do feel, before you had your surgery and we were talking about it, I remember being well, wait till after your surgery and see how you feel like about some different things in your life and different decisions yeah, like being, like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're right yeah, like that's coming back. Yeah, we were talking about some things and ideas and like dreams you were having and I'm like well, you know you have the surgery and I'm of the belief too that because it is your uterus, it's like a big, energetic and with all the stuff you had going on with it and you're.
Speaker 2:So I was bleeding for a really long time, cast like on and off irregularly for six years, which is, it sounds like such a long time and it was, but it didn't feel like that long of a time when I was in it and I don't know should I get into the whole thing yeah, okay, if you want, I mean get into it, I don't mind, I just feel like it's hard to say that I had a hysterectomy when there was like so much other stuff with it why do you feel like it's?
Speaker 1:hard to say because there's so much more to it than to just come into the picture and be like, oh, like it was a light vibe and this happened.
Speaker 2:No, yeah, I was bleeding irregularly for a long time, for years, and I kept on going to doctors and we're talking irregularly, weeks at a time, yeah, and heavy, I don't know. Is it too much information to talk about that?
Speaker 1:baby, you want to know your flow, where women and flow talk about they flow. No, I'm just kidding, okay, no, yeah, okay, so I was bleeding. Well, yeah, if you're squeamish, don't listen yeah, if you're open, just listen yeah, we're trying to make you open. I'll know your flow yeah regulate. We are making period talks right normal. Yes, well, it should be. It is because this is another.
Speaker 2:This is a story of suffering and silence for a long time and it wasn't until I shared with a specific person that really helped me. So I was bleeding irregularly. Sometimes it would be weeks that I was bleeding really heavy, so heavy to the point where I couldn't be away from a bathroom for very long and or sleep through the night without going getting up and going to the bathroom, and then I would go like maybe a month or two without having a bleed and every doctor that I went to, every single OBGYN, ingester this might be my fuck you.
Speaker 2:Message to you told me to get on birth control or get an IUD, and in my heart it just didn't feel right. There's no other way to explain it, except I knew what it was going to do to my body. I knew it wasn't going to feel good and I knew it wasn't the answer. I also got told I had to lose a lot of weight. But try losing weight when you're hemorrhaging blood and can't be away from a bathroom for more than an hour. I could barely walk up the stairs anyways, and you were just like normalizing this I was normalizing it.
Speaker 2:I was just telling you I was teaching yoga, for I started getting really bad during my teacher training and there was one weekend where I could barely even move and everyone thought I was so zen during one of our Saturday classes where I was just sitting there but like I physically could not move or I knew blood was gonna like come pouring out of me and go everywhere and this is like a packed Saturday class, so I had to wait for everyone to move and leave and then go to the bathroom.
Speaker 1:Like it was messed up.
Speaker 2:And I look back and I was very messed up Like I don't know how I survived, so did you ever tell anybody? In teacher training I told a couple people and I just feel like when people heard what I was saying, it was like I was underselling it or they just didn't get how bad it was. I wasn't being dramatic when I said I had to be near a bathroom. All the time I carried like extra underwear, extra pants in my purse.
Speaker 1:I was like it was like day one.
Speaker 2:No, yeah, right, right, it was like day one period every time every day sometime and I never knew if it was gonna go or come back oh my god, it was awful.
Speaker 1:It was awful to go or come back.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, it was awful it was awful and like even looking at pictures of myself, like I had no color in my face, like now I am going through like hormone changes so I can get very hot quickly and I am so happy when my face turns red because I was so pale.
Speaker 1:It is true when you look back at photos. Like I remember right after your surgery being like dude, her skin looks better.
Speaker 2:Her face looks brighter. I look not like a corpse, like I was just telling you that guy passed out in the Home Depot parking lot.
Speaker 1:Side note yeah, but, and he was having some sort of health issue.
Speaker 2:He was so white. That is what I looked like every single day which I don't know how anyone was. Are you okay? You're like, she's just really pale.
Speaker 1:I know I was, she never blushes. Yeah, yeah, I never.
Speaker 2:I have no shame, no blush, no, and so I forget what I was like. So I was bleeding really bad. I went to all the doctors. They told me birth control. At some point I said I'm just gonna give in and get it. Take the birth control. I didn't want to do the IUD because I was scared they would put it in me and they wouldn't take it out.
Speaker 2:So that was a good thought, I know well it was just like at this this season of my life, especially the last two years before I had the surgeries, I thought I was gonna die like I thought I was gonna die from this and it only took me walking up the stairs in my house and essentially like passing out and having to go to the emergency room and like get blood transfusion, that I was okay, I'm gonna go there and they're just gonna let me waste away.
Speaker 2:It was awful. It was awful. Even now, thinking about it, I get choked up because if you've ever experienced and I feel like I hear this on your podcast a lot a health issue, no matter what it was, and doctors are not listening to you and telling you that there's like a simple fix, a pill or to lose weight, I just feel like it's a cop-out most of the time when you know that that's not true, because every blood test was normal except I was anemic. Every whatever ultrasound MRI scans, all that stuff was all normal, nothing abnormal. And so I in my mind, I was like this is it, this is how I go.
Speaker 1:Anyways, it's so weird, though, that you're bleeding, that that you're like bleeding all the time and no one is being like, okay, well, let's do this then. Well, how about this? Or it really seemed like dedicated to the journey with you. Why it really that hard?
Speaker 2:I mean, really I don't know and honestly I think that it is. I think, when they don't know and their only answer is birth control or lose weight, I just feel like they don't have the time or the capacity to figure it out there. That's not their job.
Speaker 1:It's such an integrity I mean, yeah, I hate to be like that, but it's such an integrity issue for me, though, because it's like if somebody were to come into me for consultation and I'm looking at their hair and I'm and this happens. I don't have the time or the space to be able to do this you really need help. I'm going to refer you to four to five different options and, you know, I think these people might be able to help you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that only happened once where my regular doctor, who I love, and she referred me to a gynecologist in the area. But I had already seen her and her answer. I mean, I have been told I was fat for like a really long time, but being fat has nothing to do with bleeding. That's exactly my point. I was like I'm not my 600 pound life yeah, I mean like and.
Speaker 1:and also, tammy didn't have a period. Okay, tammy thought she was pregnant or something like that.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, that's so funny, but it's true, I mean honestly. I mean it was the lowest of the low.
Speaker 2:I just had to survive, and this was how many years of this happening Six years in total, but the last two years were like the most crucial, because it was my longest time that I bled was from christmas, so december 25th, through the end of february, every single day. I never stopped, and that's when I ended up in the emergency room and their their answer was yeah, go follow up with an ob-gyn and take iron, and I'm like I can't take any more iron but this was not endometriosis.
Speaker 2:So it turned out after having my surgeries fast forward it was endometriosis and it was so bad that they were like you should have had this surgery years ago no one said anything and no one told me oh, and it never showed up well, they say technically, even though I have friends who have endometriosis and they got diagnosed without being cut open. But I guess in some medical realms the only way you can get diagnosed is if you're cut open and they see like the lesions and stuff yeah, so, anyways.
Speaker 1:So let me say one more thing, though, really good, what's crazy about this, though, is that I think that and again, I'm not a doctor, this is is not medical advice, anything like that but from what I have learned in cyclical school and things like that, it's not as complicated as they're acting like In terms of, if you don't have a missing period, like your period's not really coming, you probably have PCOS. If you have nonstop bleeding over and over again, endometriosis, if you like it really, really.
Speaker 2:One doctor even told me it definitely is an endometriosis, is not? Yes, why? This is before I had the surgery.
Speaker 1:Okay, I don't know why he said that yeah, emphasis on he yeah, because how would he have known that exactly if he, unless he said he was one?
Speaker 2:of the doctors that just wanted to do the IUD. He was looking at all my old stuff. This was the doctor before I saw, the doctor that helped me save my life.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:He didn't. So he didn't even order any tests on me. He was just looking at all the other information and I thank God I did not. I did take a birth control pill for two days and it was so. It made me feel so bad and I called the office. I was like, is it normal to feel this way? I am having bad cramps, I can barely walk, and they were like you might feel like that for a couple months. I was like a couple months, yeah, what do you mean? And I'm still bleeding. So now I feel really bad and I'm bleeding and you're telling me it's going to be like this for months. So I threw them in the trash. I was like I'm not doing this. I you went against. Honestly, it was a pretty interesting sign.
Speaker 2:The first time I had an appointment with him this is before I saw him and he told me about that. I had to go on birth control. Now you know how doctors they like call you the day before. So they called me the day before the appointment, the first appointment, to confirm. I said, yes, I go in there. I feel awful because I know I'm about to betray myself and they say, oh, I don't know, I think your appointment isn't in the system. I was, I. You guys called and confirmed I have the voicemail here and they were like, oh well, he's not going to be here till later today anyways, so you can either wait or you can make another appointment. I was like, well, I'll make another appointment. And I left very upset because I thought this was going to be like my answer of healing and looking back, it was like God or whatever you believe in telling me don't do this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is not it, this guy's not it.
Speaker 2:And on top of it, I stopped bleeding that day too, out of nowhere. Whoa, I know so looking back, I mean I did what was right. It took a few extra steps to like not do the birth control, which, whatever is right for you, do what's right for you.
Speaker 1:Don't take me as like the role model or anything Totally but yeah, but anyway yeah.
Speaker 2:So I thought that was interesting, that I mean I had all the science, but it was exhausting. Think about years. I tried different diets, I tried different supplements. I mean big wellness got me. Man. I was buying all the things thinking it was gonna cure me. I went vegan for a month, which was probably an awful thing to do, even though I was told it would balance my hormones.
Speaker 1:You know, like all the things, just to figure it out what was your relationship with your yoni and your that whole part of you and your period? I?
Speaker 2:I felt my body was betraying me, yeah, and I was like why are you doing this? And then there were times where I was like I will just bleed and it will come to me, I will know what to do, and it just wasn't like that. Like I wanted a sign so badly and looking back, I don't know what the sign would have been, because sometimes I do wonder if it was like the right path or like what was the point of it all.
Speaker 1:And I forget who?
Speaker 2:it was probably April, but she was like not everything has to have a reason, like don't get into the story of it all, because in the end I mean I'm healthier now than I was then. But I felt betrayed, you know, by my body and frustrated and like an idiot. Felt betrayed, you know, by my body, and frustrated and like an idiot and looking back, now that I I'm not bleeding, my whole life was consumed by thinking about it and figuring it out, which I'm sure anybody that has some sort of chronic illness deals with right yeah, exactly so you don't.
Speaker 2:Just how often do you go into the doctor? They're like, oh, it's this and we're gonna do this to fix you. You know like you have to get all the tests and go see all the specialists, and it was an awful, awful, awful journey.
Speaker 1:Did you like yourself during those years and during that time, or when do you feel like you started?
Speaker 2:kind of like loving yourself, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Or trusting yourself and love Like. When do you feel like self-love and self-trust started to come into the picture? Well, I?
Speaker 2:I mean, I couldn't even do the things that I cared about.
Speaker 1:Like.
Speaker 2:I couldn't go for walks, I couldn't go get a massage. I didn't want to be touched by anybody because I felt disgusting. I felt how many times can you bleed through your pants?
Speaker 1:Seriously, until you're like I'm just a sopping tissue. I'm disgusting, yes.
Speaker 2:Yes, and be nervous about going on vacation because, even if it would stop, I had no idea when it was going to come back. You know it was awful.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I feel very grateful that I had, like people, my husband, who was such a supportive partner, because I mean it wasn't easy for him too. He basically saw me, you know, upset all the time I was physically not okay. I would got winded going up the stairs every single time I did. I mean I wasn't using like 400, I wasn't burning 400 calories on a regular day. And I only know that because of my Apple watch. You know, it sets goals for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it does it based on how much time or how how much calories you're naturally burning just by like walking around living your life. I couldn't reach like 400. And now I can double that, just being a regular person.
Speaker 1:So like it was messed up, it was a messed up time, really crazy, yeah, yeah and then like on top of life. I mean it's crazy. You were doing yoga teacher training and bleeding.
Speaker 2:I don't even know how you're doing that and it's crazy because you talk about suffering in silence.
Speaker 1:I've known you not forever, but for a while, and you it wasn't your whole personality.
Speaker 2:No, oh, I barely shared. Seriously, you get to a point where, like one, I don't want to make people feel bad too. It's a weird thing to share, and a lot of people okay, here's another thing I did acupuncture, all the other things that could possibly help people who would hear this and be like, well, that's kind of what happens when you're a certain age and since I got my period really young, like I got it like when I was like 10, like very, very young.
Speaker 2:We hadn't even had the talk in school. People assumed, well, maybe I was going through like perimenopause really early. Because, yeah, I guess. I had the surgery last year, so I was 38, something like that, or 39. And so then six years, so like my whole 30s. Whoa, that's crazy.
Speaker 1:Yeah that is crazy. So, your whole 30s. You were going through this, yeah.
Speaker 2:So basically after having, right after having Noelle, I would say maybe like a year after.
Speaker 1:It just like sparked this whole thing and you got no relief.
Speaker 2:It just got worse and worse well, so then what happened? So I went to a yoga teacher retreat at shine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because you said you had been bleeding from December till February.
Speaker 2:Basically, yes, yeah, and I was bleeding during that and one of those classes that we had to take, so just like a hot vinyasa, I just sat there and I just cried because I couldn't move. I was bleeding so bad like it was just like gushes, gushes, gushes.
Speaker 2:Like somebody turned the faucet on and I knew I was like, oh my god it was awful so then I forget what it was, but it was during one of our breaks, yeah, and I had told people some people about this, but I forget why it came up. But Jen was there and I started talking to her about it, about how I was bleeding, bad and it was awful, and I didn't know what to do. And then Cyndia came up and she shared they both shared that they went through this, no way and I was like I just want have a surgery. I wanted to get an endometrial ablation, so where?
Speaker 2:they like burn the inside of your uterus.
Speaker 2:Because I thought that would be the answer. Because, after years of suffering my mom thanks. Mom told me that she had the same thing happen. I was like mom, what the hell, why didn't you tell me about this before? And that she had an ablation. But she also had kids really later in her life. So me and my youngest brother are 10 years apart, so she was still having babies and then this happened. So she had an ablation and her bleeding stopped and she's been good ever since. So I was like that's what I want I want.
Speaker 1:Did she not know that was happening to you like? Did you not? Had you not told her?
Speaker 2:she did. I don't know, my mom is such a wonderful person, but like she worries so much, it's hard to share stuff like that, like how bad it actually is, and so she knew some of it and she just thought maybe you have like an irregular period sometimes and that maybe I was figuring it out, but in the height of it all she knew she wanted me to have a surgery eventually, because it worked for her.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:So I told jen and Cyndia in this teacher training that I wanted to have the surgery. Cyndia said which, like I don't know if I should share people's medical information, but I mean.
Speaker 2:I she shared with me, so I'll share with you. Yeah, is that she had an ablation and that it helped her because she was going through the same thing like the gushes. You'd stand up and then you'd get like dizzy almost because you'd suddenly lose all this blood. And then jen said she had an ablation. It didn't work and then she had a hysterectomy and I was like I have taught I've seen every single doctor in the frederick county area. They will not do a surgery on me. I asked I just want to have an ablation or I want a hysterectomy? And they were like like you are too young, we can't do that to you. That's a whole nother story. I don't know if I can even go down because I at the time, at that time, when this doctor told me that I was 36 or 37 years old and I had two kids I have two kids now, but but so it's not.
Speaker 2:And if I regretted that, let me regret that. Yeah, what was the? What was the hang up? That they did not want to do that. They thought I would regret it. What if I wanted to have kids one day? I was like I can't even have, I don't need too much information, I can't have sex right now. I am bleeding so bad. Yeah, it's impossible.
Speaker 1:You know what I going on?
Speaker 2:oh, my gosh, and they want to put me on birth control anyways oh my god, it's a mess.
Speaker 1:I know it's a mess.
Speaker 2:It like hurts me too much it's awful, and that's why I always feel for anybody that's like going through yeah, it's awful it is, especially as a woman.
Speaker 2:They told me that and I said I've gone to all the doctors, they they won't do surgery on me. And Jen says to me you need to go out east, they will do the surgery on you. You need to find a doctor, not in this area, and I was like you're right, but also that felt like a mountain that I could not climb. So it was after that that I ended up passing out and having to go to the emergency room like a week after, which is ironic, not ironic. The week that I had health issues, cindy had all her health stuff, so we were both going through it and we commiserated a little bit when we came back together going through all this stuff, anyways. So I called some doctors, some in Leesburg and then one in. Of course, my mom. She knows that I was in the emergency room. She's like call this doctor, some random doctor she found on Google, but she's like unknowingly intuitive. So I called the doctor, made an appointment. Of course, both these doctors were not going to see me for like two months, a whole, nother issue. That's not right. And I was like I want to get on a cancellation list. If you have a cancellation. Call me first, I will come, doesn't matter how far it is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the Fairfax doctor called me the next day and said can you come in tomorrow? We have an opening. And I was like yes. So I drove my way out to Fairfax. I told her her Everything, not even everything Like the gist of it, like the highlights of it, and she was like well, what do you want to do?
Speaker 2:Do you want to have a hysterectomy, do you want to have an ablation or do you want to try an IUD? And I'm like so there's more than one choice. Like she barely even looked at me and gave me these choices, choices, and I like burst into tears, of course. And I was like are you serious? And she was like, yes, you need this. Yeah, and I was like I want to have the ablation. And at the time Chris couldn't come in with me they were still like following COVID stuff, um. So I was like I want to have the ablation. She's like you could just bring down the hammer and we could just have a hysterectomy. And I was like I want the ablation. The time of recovery for the ablation it was like a couple days yeah, the hysterectomy.
Speaker 2:It's like a month right over a month.
Speaker 1:You're like let's at least just do this, because any relief. You're like even if I was spotting, I'd be happy as heck.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly and so they got me into surgery, I guess within a couple weeks yeah, I guess it was maybe a full month and I had the ablation. Everything went well, but it didn't work. So a couple months after that I started bleeding again. And I mean talk about disappointment. I was a freaking mess, Because again on top of life stuff, because you know, I also have other things going on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, right, uterus.
Speaker 2:And I went back to her. I was upset. She's like let's get you in for a hysterectomy, but it was right before the. It wasn't right before the holidays, I think it was September that I went back to see her and she was like I don't know if I'll be able to get you in before the new year. And I was like okay. I was like God, this sucks.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but what's another couple months yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so they called me the next day and they were like we can get you in on October 31st or whatever it was, october 30th, yeah, but you have to, you know, do all this stuff, because now it's a major surgery and and tick all these boxes and do all this stuff to get ready for it, and it's not a lot of time. So I scrambled, got everything taken, taken care of, went and had the surgery. And I mean at this point I had like lost a lot of trust in doctors, even her, and I'm gonna get a little choked up because I remember going there and my dad called me and he was like I just want to wish you good luck.
Speaker 2:And I was like I'm so scared because I thought like it's so major. They're talking about having to put like a tube in my throat to breathe during it. It's hours long, a huge recovery. I was like I don't know if I'm going to survive it and I was so scared. And then I come out of surgery so I fall asleep before surgery with that mentality, feeling awful. I wake up and the first thing that she tells me is you had endometriosis so bad, it was everywhere. You should have had this surgery years ago. And I got so upset, hysterical, because I was like it felt like years of my life were taken from me. Yeah, when I knew it was best for me and I'm not saying that we always do, cause obviously I'm not a doctor but like I knew, that exactly that they were telling me we're not right.
Speaker 2:I couldn't have lost enough weight or been on enough birth control for that bleeding to stop and I could have. I took so much responsibility for it and it wasn't my fault. I had so much shame around it in like so many different ways and hearing that like sent me into like a rage because I was. I wanted to say to all those doctors fuck you. You didn't listen to me, you didn't care about me and you thought you could just pawn me off to these like simple solutions when I told you it wasn't gonna work you know, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:And so after the surgery I mean my blood pressure was high, I was a mess. They couldn't get me to calm down until this, like really beautiful, wonderful nurse looked at me and saw how sad I was and she was like just let it out, and she gave me a hug and I like wailed for like 20 minutes and I felt so much better and like thank god for nurses like that and like people in the health care system like that.
Speaker 2:And yeah, so I recovered, just fine and you know, after a few months I started to feel normal again and then a whole nother thing comes up where I go for a physical afterwards and they're like your blood pressure is high and you're gonna have to go on medication for that and I'm like I just had two major surgeries in six months. I'm not anemic anymore after two months of having the hysterectomy and I'm just going to count that as a win and doctors like can gaslight you to make you feel so awful, I know, and so that then it just re-infuriated me, like you're not listening to me, you're not giving me any time to like regularly after years of being fucked up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly so physically I'm better yeah I'm not anemic anymore. I have color in my face.
Speaker 1:I can and you don't bleed at all.
Speaker 2:I don't bleed at all. They. It was a full hysterectomy so they took my uterus, my tubes, but left my um ovaries. So I still have like hormones. I don't know how that works, but they're just like floating in there. Yeah, but endometriosis can still show up in your body. I just won't bleed anymore, so I still have to be careful about taking care of myself, because then the lesions can attach to, like your lungs or bladder or stuff like that.
Speaker 1:But hopefully it doesn't come to that do you feel like there's any like energetic connection between how you feel now and then, like what was happening then because of all of it, like I know what you said, I guess, do you feel energetically different because that's not happening to you anymore? I feel like, physically, obviously, but energetically do you feel clearer? Do you feel?
Speaker 2:like a weight has been lifted.
Speaker 1:Do you feel happier?
Speaker 2:I my whole way of life has changed yeah. I'm not trying to figure it out yeah like I don't have to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, energetically, I feel like I have more rage inside of me than probably I've ever had before, because I feel like I don't know, because, in a sense, like some part of me wants to take responsibility and well, you knew that these things weren't going to help, but you didn't do anything about it or go seek this help earlier. But then, on the other hand, I did and I got exhausted and I was burned out and I just didn't have the energy.
Speaker 1:So I don't know, it is a weird thing. Yeah, do you feel like you easily go into a victim mentality or a martyr mentality? Or do you go into a self-aware accountability, like accountability?
Speaker 2:see, I don't know, I I believe it probably borders on martyr and or has for a long time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that has been the go like go-to patterns in your life.
Speaker 2:Do you normally or like I don't know I. I guess you could call it a victim, but I've never, I've never felt like I'm, like poor me. It's more like I'm harder on myself. Why aren't you doing this, you know? Like, like, like more like self-loathing, yes, like lots of, shame, shame yeah like I am very quick to take my piece of it, you know in a bad way.
Speaker 1:Yes, not in a way of like you did the best you could. It's all good, but it's like I also know that.
Speaker 2:I know to be true, but also like can.
Speaker 1:It can both be true can.
Speaker 2:I know that it's like. I also know that I know true, but also like can it can both be true.
Speaker 1:Can I know that it's not my fault, but also I wish I would have done better because, like I asked earlier, it's a slippery slope yeah, when do you feel like you got to the point where you really were able to love yourself and be there for yourself and give yourself compassion, because that hasn't always been the case, right no, I don't know, I'm not even sure I totally do that now.
Speaker 2:To be completely honest, I feel like I still obviously have a lot of hang-ups when it comes to this stuff. I just I want I guess part of it is a victim mentality, because I'll be like why? Why the fuck is this happening to me? But not in a like a woe is me more like what am I supposed to learn from this?
Speaker 1:and I think that that's not always the best place to be either, because because sometimes it's time yeah that then you can look back and be like oh, I'm starting to see maybe how that correlated with that, which then and we're not always ready to peel the layers back because it's almost, but not even that there is like who knows what it is. I mean, I love to find the patterns, I think patterns are great.
Speaker 2:I love a meaning, I love a story, I love a reason why you know, yeah, and this it's hard for me to figure out the reason why because it was a lot of suffering and in silence, and I think that that's the worst way to be when you're suffering yeah, would you I don't know any other way. You know, do you?
Speaker 1:now, though, like now, do you think, like because I think it's so crazy to think of you now not being able to share with me or other friends like I think about how you did share then and yoga, and then you got. The result of that was that you shared when we're vulnerable and people were there to help you you know that.
Speaker 2:Okay, here this will went after my surgery. People showed up for me. Can I cry please?
Speaker 1:keep crying. Let me get a paper towel. I will. I don't have the travel pack of napkin. Jackie was saying that she was upset earlier at a situation and somebody had a travel pack of napkins and she said there's no way this will ever be enough and we were dying.
Speaker 2:I would say the first time that I felt like maybe I loved and cared for myself or let other people love and care for myself, so in a way that was me letting myself be cared for, was after my surgery. I physically could not move well you know, like I couldn't get out of bed on my own, I couldn't drive. Obviously, I couldn't take care of my family they are very used to. Yeah they are very used to. Yeah, and people like you and a few other people showed up with food for for me.
Speaker 1:Let it out, we're pro crying. Please keep it going.
Speaker 2:We love a cry showed up for me and my family and bringing food, bringing little gifts and just things that were just so kind, and it was probably the first time, I don't know in a really long time, maybe ever, that I let people be there for me and not feel guilty yeah they're gonna drive all the way out here. They're gonna you know what I mean like I don't like and not feeling like I need to like repay them with the same amount of effort right now because I physically couldn't.
Speaker 1:Right yeah.
Speaker 2:But that's a practice that I still need to you know, like I still don't like sharing things, but then I also wonder, like you can't share everything with everyone.
Speaker 1:No, because then it becomes weird. But, there are certain. I was talking to somebody the other day too, about how there are certain people though. Yeah Well, how it's funny how there are certain people who you just get the vibe immediately I'm not sharing anything like personal with you, I will never do that.
Speaker 1:But then there are people that you don't even know that well, but you know they're safe and that's just based off of. I feel like intuition and like a feeling of like I can tell that person this deep thing about me and they're not going to judge me but see, that's the thing.
Speaker 2:Like the people that showed up during that time were people that have not been in my life forever right, you know what I mean. Yeah, and there were people in my life like for a much longer time that didn't show up and like that's fine, everyone's doing the best they can.
Speaker 1:I don't totally, but it's interesting it was very interesting.
Speaker 2:It felt very eye-opening, like I had a friend go through a really hard time in an abusive relationship and I remember sharing her gofundme but she had to stay anonymous because court was going on and she didn't want to get sued and all this stuff. But she needed money and so I shared with my people, my communities, right, and it was the people from yoga who did not know this person and only knew me from yoga, showed up for her. But the people that I thought would be there because we're in the same community, like a law enforcement partner ship, and so we know that this darkness, you know, exists out there and we see how our partners bring it home and stuff, so we know. I just feel like it's our duty to be there. They were not. They questioned the authenticity of that freaking GoFundMe and that has stuck with me for a really long time because you're questioning me.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean yeah, I, yeah, no, I know so just interesting because I think being seen is like the most valuable and like such an important and a rare thing for somebody to truly like see you and I feel like you don't have to know somebody sometimes for a long time for them to just get it like to get what you're doing get what?
Speaker 2:you're about see you for who you are, but then it makes me wonder, gosh, has anybody ever seen me until I found a yoga community, or like a heart-centered community, I should?
Speaker 1:say. You think that you were being true, though, to who you were.
Speaker 2:I wonder that too yeah, no. I don't think so. I don't think I would have ever shared any like. Let's say, I didn't talk that day in shine with those, those specific people. I wasn't sharing it with anybody else. Yeah, so how could they show up or be there or whatever? Exactly, yeah, how could they see me? Yeah, and everything that I was going through when it was like a huge mystery yeah, so it's almost I mean little micro lessons even just uncovering here is like it's safe to be.
Speaker 2:You know you found people that it's safe to be seen yeah, and is there anything worse than thinking you can be seen and like the person not seeing you? That's always my fear. Yeah, it's just like I was saying earlier about.
Speaker 1:You know, it's easy when we have masks on to like act like detached and it can just be like I don't care if you want to talk shit about me. Well, I'm not even really being true to me anyway, so it doesn't really matter, yeah, but when you're really trying to be the most authentic version of you and putting them your most passionate real self and somebody rejects that, that feels way worse which is why people don't do it yeah and what stops us, and we live our lives based on other people's expectations of us and what they want for us yes, it's just a whole other thing.
Speaker 1:Yes, so do you feel like now you're on basically a road? Because how old are you now? You said 30.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna be 40 in a month.
Speaker 1:Wow, yeah, october 23rd so do you feel like now you're on an upward journey of really truly loving yourself and learning yourself?
Speaker 2:I want to say yeah, but I don't know. I feel like, because I was sick for so long, that I am dealing with a lot of stuff that I dealt with in survival mode and now I'm not in survival mode and physically I'm okay and I'm not worried about like losing all the blood in my body in the middle of the night and falling asleep and like never waking up. So all the stuff that has happened in the other aspects of my life during that time I have come to the surface to be met.
Speaker 1:Oh, that makes sense.
Speaker 2:And then, and, and, and, trying to find the balance of, but like a forever practice right Of trying to care for myself. Let what I do be enough, not try so hard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I know I'm on that journey. It just feels like there's loose ends that need to be tied up first, or maybe I could do it at the same time. I just don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, do you feel like you like to rush or be slow? Like your natural inclination? I want to rush.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like you want it to be done, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm ready.
Speaker 1:But what stops it from being done?
Speaker 2:Do you think it's yeah, I'm avoiding it. I avoid it, or it's it's too much, or I don't know what to do. For example, all during like the worst parts of my bleeding, I had a family member that became estranged from our family and it was upsetting and has been upsetting this whole time. It feels like there's so many other emotions coming up to the surface now that I'm almost a year out from my surgery and my body has found a little bit more harmony. And it's interesting because Jen told me that it would take about a year for me to physically feel more myself.
Speaker 1:Well, you think it's like the same exact thing of having a baby. Yeah, the same exact thing.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Except there's no yeah maybe, which is nice yeah, I need to sleep, I need to rest.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, exactly um, and then other things you know, like trying to figure out my identity, having a career or teaching yoga or where I want that path to go, or you know, my kids are a huge priority.
Speaker 1:Obviously almost like too much yeah, you know what's funny too, and interesting is that you know how people say you get a hysterectomy and it like sends you into menopause right, this wouldn't because I still have ovaries, I guess.
Speaker 1:Okay, gotcha well, what I was gonna say is is that it's almost like you're in between two worlds, yes, and trying to navigate. What that looks like being in the world of being in the height of, like your mother archetype, which is basically from like 25 to 50, but you're 40 and so your mother is like birthing projects, yeah, like birthing projects birthing children, mothering things, nurturing things, being in that and then, from you know 50 to 70, you're in your it's called maga, basically where you're like in the fall time of your life, so things are winding down and you're resting and blah blah, and so if you're kind of in between those because hormonally you're not having that bleed anymore, so it kind of puts you in this sort of right of passage, sort of rite of passage sort of there, but not really so that balance between not trying so hard and also you're not done I'm not, you're not done, you're just beginning.
Speaker 2:Really, that's how I feel. Yeah, I feel like I'm just beginning I, that's how I see it and I I totally agree with that. I feel like I am in some sort of limbo, but I have never fit into a box Like not, I'm not like a cookie cutter person.
Speaker 2:I'm always a couple different things at once. I like different things that don't go together, like it just is who I am and it is annoying. I mean it's wonderful and I love who I am, but it's annoying because I do feel like I am in limbo Like I want I am, but it's annoying because I do feel like I am in limbo like I want I have all this energy now my life has opened up. I want to do all these things that, like my heart is calling me to, but my I'm very like. My kids really need me, yeah, and my spouse really needs me and I'm like holding the glue of the family, the foundation, together. You know what I mean? Yeah, but also I feel like I'm ready to step out into my own, and yeah.
Speaker 1:So it's very confusing and how it feels to not have that problem anymore.
Speaker 2:We're saying it's just a huge adjustment to go from.
Speaker 1:I have this problem, I have this thing. I have this thing holding me back.
Speaker 2:I was purging like old clothes, old purses, like just stuff, and I had pads hidden and everything like that all the time. I'm finding pads everywhere and like I want to give them to grace, but not the same kind of bad.
Speaker 1:She's like I don't need like a diaper, mom. I does it really need to come out of my underwear at the top?
Speaker 2:I'm like, should I save these? And I'm like, should I save these? And I'm like, no, I should have like a burn party.
Speaker 1:I don't know if you can burn them. I think we would get a little sick from whatever. Yeah, they're not like of the plastic buying a lot of pads.
Speaker 2:They're pretty generic. They're not like the the like good, yeah, a little itchy, but yeah, so right now, yeah, I'm in between worlds.
Speaker 1:I don't know but you're like a baby. Yeah, I mean you're. Yeah, you're a baby. Everything is new in a weird way like it is. It isn't like. I know things are the same.
Speaker 2:You're totally yeah, point and I see things like in my life where I don't need to do as much. I don't know why I was overcompensating. Talking about my yoga schedule used to be like at least seven classes a week, which I don't know how I was physically doing that, but I was, and now I'm at a three. I mean I could add a class, maybe if it was like my heart's calling of, like a passion that I wanted to teach that that person or that class. But I feel good about that yeah you know, yeah.
Speaker 1:I do feel pulled for something more, but I don't know what that is yet, yeah, I think you can like let go of the thing, that of like the whole part of like having to have it figured out by next spring. You had a thought.
Speaker 2:I think that'd be great yeah, no, you're right, you know it's the trying too hard. Like what am I?
Speaker 1:I've been figuring out. I've no, I think it's a part of it used to figuring stuff out like trying to, because it's all it did for so long, you know yeah, and suppressing, not like, because if you would have slowed down and actually dealt with the fact that you were frustrated as shit and you're bleeding 24 7, you couldn't sit with that the world couldn't have sit with it.
Speaker 2:I would have. I mean I would have gone to jail or lit this whole town on fire like literally I couldn't, I had to just suppress it, yeah, but yeah, which is what the patriarchy wants.
Speaker 1:Yeah yes, I could be called crazy, I'm so crazy, let's just suppress us, suppress our emotions suppress our desires and intuition and all that shit, and they don't even realize that they're doing it they don't but it's like not acknowledging the fact that women are powerful and know what's up intuitively and you can't measure. Intuitive can't measure that you can't. I mean's up intuitively and you can't measure. Intuitive can't measure that you can't. I mean I you know and you can't prove it. You can't, whatever.
Speaker 2:I love my husband so much and I know where he was coming from. But there were times where you can't you just go to the doctor and take something yeah, you know what I mean and I'm like it's not gonna help you know and yeah and we would argue about that, but I got it like he saw me suffering and he wanted it to stop yeah, and he couldn't help. I mean that had to be just as hard as me going through it yeah, to watch someone you care about go through something that you cannot help at all right.
Speaker 1:You know that would be so frustrating.
Speaker 2:I mean he was frustrated. I remember him going to one of the doctor's appointments and him being like well, can't you just do this? And they were like no, we can't. I mean good for him for having the balls to be like can't you just have, give her a surgery yeah, which sounds so like really, though. Yeah, and they were like no, and I think that's when it clicked for him, but it still was very hard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah so I guess connecting to yourself your truth, intuition and your intuition is number one.
Speaker 2:I mean, I feel like if there's anything that like lesson to come from this, it's that it's powerful and needed, and yeah, oh, we know, like I truly believe that, and saying this as somebody who, like, gets in my head a lot and I do question a lot of the things that I know, you just know, I know, you know, you know, I know you know, you know, but we're so conditioned to be taught that we don't know. And to ask get validation for that when that person doesn't know better than you?
Speaker 1:you know, I know they just don't, but the irony of it, though, is that I will get stuck thinking that I know what's best for other people, and we get into this all the time I know and the their journey is their journey and I do feel like sometimes you do know what's best for other people, but it doesn't mean that they need to know it now yeah, or at least it's one possible avenue they could take that would probably be successful for them.
Speaker 2:However, it doesn't mean that they yeah, because maybe it's not what's best for them I know and also, um, I mean, that's right, I know, but I just like going back to rushing, like I'm like, but they're wasting so much time I know, but we have attachment to to what they're doing, which is also fucked so well, because it's easier to deal with somebody else's stuff than your own it is.
Speaker 1:You know it really is yeah, and I think that I just genuinely want to help people, though, too but I'm putting yeah, but then I put my that gift is not being used appropriately like what do you mean? Like if I'm like pouring all my shit into one person's shit, that they're number one not paying me okay to do that. They also sometimes don't even have the respect for me as like a person to be that for them, you know right, yes, and so I'm using my gift wrong and it's a waste of time.
Speaker 1:Have you ever thought about it like that?
Speaker 2:like I don't want to. I don't want like as a business model or like let's not even talk about business. Sure how I want my life to be like? Why am I here on this earth right now?
Speaker 1:yeah.
Speaker 2:I originally thought it is to help people tuck each person in. You know what? I mean their own little love nest so that you know, then I will help them be at peace and they will figure it out. But that doesn't make sense. You have to hold the space and they will figure it out. But that doesn't make sense.
Speaker 2:You have to hold the space and they have to come to you like there has to be consent on their end yeah to come to you and you have the space for them to figure it out themselves because, like yeah in everything that we've ever done, which I'm sure you figured it out yourself you know what I?
Speaker 2:mean, and when other people have told you things and it didn't land, it's not gonna land it's not gonna stick if you're not ready for it, yeah, and it might land later yeah, when somebody, like when I'm talking to somebody about my me bleeding and stuff, I'm not gonna listen to the person that those people that were well, it's about the time that they say that this could happen with perimenopause.
Speaker 1:Like it's horrible advice and I don't care. Yeah, they had no idea, right.
Speaker 2:So they shouldn't have been saying that to me. But whatever, I didn't take it. I was just more annoyed. But then for somebody to be like I've been there, I did this and I was like oh, okay, yeah. Yeah, that's what helped the right time at the right, whatever you know in a safe space with a safe person, and I guess that is one-to-one, so it's not the same thing. But yeah yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1:People need to figure it out themselves yeah, so I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I don't either, but yeah, it just was hard. And if you are a woman or a mom or you just other people rely on you it is hard to go through a health journey. Yes, you are not available to everybody else, even though you think you are, or you just other people rely on you. It is hard to go through a health journey, yeah, because you are not available to everybody else, even though you think you are or you are available to them, and it's not. It's not helpful for anybody, I don't know. Looking back, I know I couldn't have changed anything, but I guess, now that I'm on the other side of it, I just feel like people need to advocate for themselves way more and let themselves be seen, and if you don't get what you need, then you got to go somewhere else. I was at the point where I thought like I wasn't going to get help from anybody else. You know what I mean. When you've gone to like four doctors.
Speaker 1:That seems messed up, right yeah, it does, yeah, and it further perpetrates the thing of you don't know what's best for you yeah, I, you know.
Speaker 2:I know that there are so many stories like this too. I know it's like heartbreaking, very upsetting, infuriating, but like what's the answer? I don't know. We just live in this world, right, I think?
Speaker 1:that we, as women, we really are not. So I was just thinking about this earlier today. Again, this is so funny. But as women, we're not supposed to be alone. We're supposed to be in community with our women like we really are, whether it's yoga, whether it's crossfit, whether it's friends from high school, whether it's moms, whether it's whatever. We're supposed to be in community with other women because we need to know the stories of other women in our lives, the stories of our lives with each other and like teaching each other these things and being of service to each other and mothering each other.
Speaker 1:And like teaching each other these things and being of service to each other and mothering each other and being in that sort of communal thing got a little bit fucked up by competition from the patriarchy which I think we're dismantling now and trying to act like we have it all together. I think, again dismantling with social media, storytelling. We see each other more and blah blah. So I think, at the end of the day, what do we do? We keep sharing, we keep showing up for each other that is so hard from.
Speaker 2:I don't know if it was like this for you growing up, but it was hard to be around girls when I was in like high school it is for a lot of people it was traumatizing and I was never I'm only friends with guys person, so I was just kind of like isolated by myself. You know, I mean I had groups of friends, but that other sisterhood wound, or whatever you want to call it, is deep, so finding a community of women that actually care about each other seemed impossible.
Speaker 2:And to find it is so helpful.
Speaker 1:You're so right, it's important yeah but what has to come first is those women all have to love themselves, and the reason I think it works in a yoga setting is because those women are already there, because they're on the pursuit of loving themselves and trying to be the best version of themselves, so they're not muddying each other's shit up so do you think it's happening right now as like a society?
Speaker 2:or you think every generation goes through the like, having trauma from other women or females in their life, and then they have to love themselves and then find a community? Because I'm thinking about my kids, you know what I mean because there's a whole red thread lineage.
Speaker 1:So we repeat the same patterns of our mothers and our mother's mother and their mother's mother and all these things, unless we notice the patterns by slowing down and looking at them and saying that we're going to choose to try to dismantle some of the patterns and not pass them on to the next woman. And so the answer is and not that it's linear, because you're going to, you know there's going to be new things that come into play, you know, within the lineage well, yeah, because even if you're recognizing a bad pattern and doing things differently doesn't mean everyone in the world is doing that.
Speaker 2:They're not. So then your kids friends, but some of us are put here, I think, sometimes to break the patterns.
Speaker 1:I think it's some of our things to break the patterns and then some of ours to break, but I also think that our orientation to time is a little bit messed up too. What do you mean Like? I think that we sometimes think that, like, for instance, right now you're trying to rush, but time in general it doesn't even really matter. Rush for what.
Speaker 2:it's all made up in your brain and by like, after a certain point, as a woman, that they're okay, you're done, yeah, but you live to die. It's a patriarchy I know I freaking hate that, because I'm thinking like, as my 40th birthday is coming up, this is it. What have I? Even done with my life, you know like all these awful stories. But I'm like, lived for 40 years. I mean, god willing, I'll live for 40 more. Look how much my I've died a million times.
Speaker 1:Exactly, I've been reborn a million and one.
Speaker 2:You know is that a Scorpio yeah, the yeah.
Speaker 1:Death and rebirth, well, yeah, it's like no. You've shared vulnerable, vulnerably, with people. You've created safe space for pieces, people. You've had a great marriage and a great relationship and you've, you know, created a safe space for your daughters and you've been a good friend and a good daughter and all these things. Yeah, and all these things, and I think it's like and also do, what are we doing?
Speaker 2:doesn't mean anything like. Why is that even a thing in my head? You know my mom didn't have like a life, because you know business woman. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's because I think you're in that space right now where you know there's like something really deep inside you that you want to create and you know that you're going to do it, but it's just not time yet and that feels like somehow self-loathing or why can't you be faster?
Speaker 2:or come on. You're just laying around.
Speaker 1:You're not even trying, okay. Well, laying around is a part of the process of this coming to life.
Speaker 1:I don't need more permission, maybe I do I don't know maybe I do think about how you just said you were teaching all those yoga classes just last year and the year before Again time. Our orientation to time is like not even so weird yeah. It's so weird and so imagine if you just spent one whole lifetime, which is a hundred years, out of hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years, like just like kicking it. It's really not a waste if that's what you're meant to do.
Speaker 2:And if you're like happy, yeah, yeah, that's true. I mean, I think all of this, like every part of my journey, has been not like for myself, but because of my kids. You know what? I mean, I don't want who I am to be their responsibility, like I'm doing this for you.
Speaker 2:You know, what I mean. I don't want it to be like that. Without them, I wouldn't have had all these mirrors look at me or wanted to take care of myself or figure things out, because I also look at everything that I do, as they might go through this too. So how can I represent the right thing, whatever that is?
Speaker 1:you know what I mean yeah, and I also don't think there's anything wrong with being obsessed with your kids and loving them so much and like them being your favorite people and being. I devoted 15 years of my life to them and that was what I wanted to do, though and that's okay though.
Speaker 2:I know you know, this is so hard because it's almost that being seen like you want people to see who you are and not like appreciate it, not say good job, I don't know what it.
Speaker 1:I know what you mean, though you want to have value on the earth, but I feel like you're not crediting yourself for the value you already have, which is the problem in the first place yeah, yeah, I mean, true, I mean yeah, true, my quick response on that, it just came out I mean it's true, though, because I mean those kids are everything to me, and they I mean they've been through so much stuff, you know, and and you've held them and you've had the space to hold them. Yeah, and you're going to continue to.
Speaker 2:I mean it's true because when I talk about the stuff that they've gone through, when I've gone to April, you know, and she's like well, what did you do? And there was a part of me that was just, I mean, not a part of me. I told her I just suffered in silence and that is not the right thing, Like no offense to my mom and dad.
Speaker 2:They weren't actively. I mean, they were actively involved in my life, but not at an emotional level, Like if I had a bad day I wasn't going to them being this happened and this happened Cause then they would tell me the ways that I should have done it differently. Or could I do this, and you don't always want that.
Speaker 2:You just want to be seen and felt, and so when Grace, especially, has gone through stuff it's been hard to my knee, jerk reaction is to be like ah, why is she telling me this? This is so much I can barely handle it. I suffered in silence. Why can't she Not that I want her to?
Speaker 1:know, but it pushes you to your edges of like it really how dare I even think that?
Speaker 2:but also it's real and I'm so glad she doesn't suffer in silence and tells me stuff because I can just sit there with her. Yeah, and they are excited to come home at the end of the day and be home and hang out with me and you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know how many people wish that that was. You know their life obviously like what, even if they don't even? If they no one wants to admit that you know, and everybody loves to say I could never be a state-at-home mom, which is fine I know that's cute.
Speaker 2:I love that. I think everyone's on their own journey, but gosh did I know, but what about the other side? Yes, I knew I had to stay at home with my kids before I even got pregnant. Yeah, like I told Chris, prerequisite yeah, I'm in love with you. I want to be able to do that, but it all worked out and we are able. I mean, we've made a lot of sacrifices. It hasn't been easy.
Speaker 2:yeah, it's not like he has, like this rich person's job, you know, bringing home the bacon, I mean he is, but yeah, yeah. So we've made sacrifices, but it's been like the best part of my life.
Speaker 2:You know it is never feels like a chore, circling back to like I take care of them. It's so much easier for me to take care of them than it is me which. There has to be balance. But their shit gets done with me. You know what I mean. Yeah, I don't know. It's just one of those things Like you got to follow your every instance and sometimes that's hard. Yeah, I mean it's always hard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, our minds are just telling us stuff yeah, I think if your legacy and your passion is this, that's fine. Yeah, that is fine, but I think that you know that there's more there and that you've gone through all of this and that you have devoted your life to being a mother, and here it's gonna happen.
Speaker 2:It's already happened but I know that's what april says. It's already happening, it is right, but it's just. It doesn't look the way that we have our expectations of what we want to agree and yeah, it's weird to feel that and know that to be true, and we live in a world where that doesn't know, mean anything or make sense. Yeah, you know, and I guess I just have to be okay with that.
Speaker 1:I don't know. All right, Jackie, anything else, Thanks for sharing vulnerably, honestly, openly deeply.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I just hope that. I know that when I've heard these stories of women advocating for themselves, sharing, being true to themselves. It is always a story of struggle and that sucks so much, but it's so important and so I just want everyone to feel that way you know, that like we're all going through it and you're not alone, we're all going through it.
Speaker 1:We're all going through something and, yeah, you might have a month or two where a cycle or two, a moon cycle or two where, yeah, you might have a month or two where a cycle or two, a moon cycle, or two where it's fine, you're living life, but shit comes up, shit comes up and it just is best to go with it, yeah, to go with it and not fight it, which is hard, and I'm saying that as somebody who fights or rushes constantly.
Speaker 1:Same, Same. I think of the Serenity Prayer, the line that says hardship is the pathway to peace.
Speaker 2:Oh, I like same. I think of the serenity prayer, the line that says hardship is the pathway to peace. Oh, I like that, my one, that I think of. It's from a song and I can't remember the song, but it's lead me to where my trust is without borders. You know that song, which I'm not the biggest fan of a song. I think it's like trust is without borders. I just love that because I think, that's so important, the trust within yourself. How often do we say that I don't know?
Speaker 2:We have to trust ourselves we have to trust ourselves, because only we know best, only we can take care of ourselves.
Speaker 1:And then help other people? Yeah, have the capacity, have the non-attachment and not muddy their stuff with our stuff. Yeah, ideally. Thank you, Jackie.
Speaker 2:Thank you, stuff yeah ideally.
Speaker 1:Thank you, jackie, thank you you.