Speaker 1: 0:05

Welcome to Know your Flow podcast, where women in flow share what they know. I'm your host, lauren Barton. Join me as we talk to women and hear their stories on what they know, how they've grown and living in flow All right. So today we're here with Cameron Hi, cameron Hi, I'm so happy to be here. Yeah, I'm excited too. It'll be fun. We just get an hour chitty chat. I know I'm excited. Thank you for be fun. We just get an hour chitty chat.

Speaker 2: 0:45

I know I'm excited. Thank you for letting me shamelessly invite myself on your podcast.

Speaker 1: 0:49

No, it was good because I was thinking it anyway Wow. When I was getting my haircut, I was like this conversation's really fun. I feel like maybe we could do like a podcast or something. And then you're like, if you ever want to do your podcast you probably didn't expect it oh yeah, you want me to schedule it right now I was like, oh God, I didn't mean to do that.

Speaker 2: 1:04

I feel like I put you on the spot, Like I felt bad. I was like no, if you don't want to, it's fine, don't worry about it. I didn't think you were no. Literally, if I didn't want you on it, I'd never say anything again, and I know that that's true.

Speaker 1: 1:14

So I felt comfortable in that.

Speaker 2: 1:19

I. And then, yeah, you're like I never mentioned it and that I, you, really, you're so real and authentic. I found comfort in that because I knew that was true and I was like, okay, if she didn't want me I wouldn't be here.

Speaker 1: 1:29

Yeah it's true. I mean, you know we got to keep it, because there's nothing I hate more than somebody who won't just say, what's up. The person who I remember well, it doesn't matter who specifically, but yeah, people will be like, oh, I can't make it.

Speaker 2: 1:45

And then they make up excuses that you know aren't real or they're like ready to leave but they won't just leave Right, yes, then they're just getting weird energy and it's almost like if you just were honest, if you just went with lightly aggressive rather than passive aggressive, would feel better. I think, too, I get anxiety around people who don't make it black and white. So I really find comfort in the fact that with people who I know one way or the other like some people can see that as like brash, but I think I like that because there's no gray area for me to be like. Were they like being weird? Because I know that they're going to tell me one way or the other, so I don't have to like be in my head about it. So I do feel like I kind of like that hard stop of somebody who is might seem difficult to people who don't like that, but I really like that like black or white. I know if they're mad or not. I appreciate that.

Speaker 1: 2:28

I do too some directness yeah exactly? If I yeah, because if I'm sitting around guessing how that interaction went right, I'll literally drive myself crazy where it's like.

Speaker 2: 2:38

I remember, like when we were hanging out a lot, I loved that you would be like no, if I you don't want to, I'll just say it. And I liked that because there was no leaving feeling like did I talk her into doing that? She didn't want to like that. I really. I like that a lot, knowing somebody when they say they saying what they mean and they're not telling me something so I can hear it, and then I have to overthink it, which I'm really good at overthinking yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 3:00

Do you feel like? Like which one are you? What do you to people? The?

Speaker 2: 3:03

problem is that I am like I'm such a people pleaser I will catch myself giving people an excuse or something so they don't feel bad. But I'm now trying to be like like careful about that and just honest and like set a boundary in a kind way. That's like okay, no, we just can't make it. That's not going to work well for us, rather than just making some big excuse because, like also, people can tell when you're doing that you're not fooling anyone. Half the time maybe, but I feel like most of the time people know I'm just trying to be nice, so I do feel like I, yeah, I am the other way, which also is funny that I find so much comfort in people who are so straight up, like I like that, yeah, that is so true.

Speaker 1: 3:37

Trying to adopt that. Do you like it's like what? Do you feel like it's hard about it? I guess you already said how it worked in the past, that people know that you're just trying to be nice. But yeah, how does it work when you're just being nice and saying whatever Like? Do you feel like people how? Do they take it.

Speaker 2: 3:49

I think on the other side of it, I I feel like I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings, being straight up which is funny, because that's not how I feel when somebody's straight up with me, it doesn overthink stuff so much that like after I don't want to be like, oh, I said that and they thought I was rude.

Speaker 2: 4:08

I want to, you know, and that's kind of to the detriment of myself, because then I like over talk and then I seem weird rather than just like being straight up about something like in a nice way and people would totally be fine with it nine times out of 10, and anybody who's not it's probably just challenging on their own.

Speaker 1: 4:23

Yeah, exactly, yeah, exactly. So you feel like you overthink what else?

Speaker 2: 4:29

I overthink. Yeah, I definitely have a problem with overthinking. I'm trying to combat yeah and probably people-pleasing a lot too, and just trying Saying no is a really hard thing, which I think I get it honest because I look at my parents and they are like the people who give the shirt off their back to anyone and they have such a hard time drawing boundaries, which I mean I understand. I also feel like our generation really like putting forward this language, but before that it wasn't really that talked about as much. So I do think that I struggle with that big time. It's like setting boundaries. I'm trying to be like just more straightforward about it and conscious about it.

Speaker 1: 5:03

Yeah, I wonder why we feel like we need boundaries so much. But nobody came up with this language before, like I wonder what has changed that now we are needing to talk about it? Yeah, or has it always been needed to talk about, or were people just not as busy so they had more capacity to deal with different shit?

Speaker 2: 5:19

Yeah, maybe or like there everybody was having these feelings, but there was just like such a stigma around it that, like you didn't want to be the one to admit that you were struggling with that, because people would look at you differently, like if you admitted that you were past your capacity and that you needed boundaries. I feel like people for so long saw that as weakness. And then I feel like the generation for us like did a lot of the work to start like breaking those stigmas and even, I feel like, parenting their kids to to like start kind of breaking those cycles and then we were able to kind of follow that up. So I do feel like our parents started the work it was just up to us to like finish it.

Speaker 1: 5:52

Yeah, so have you been putting up more boundaries lately and more in your life and business and things like that? Yeah.

Speaker 2: 5:58

I feel like it started to happen naturally too after having my son, and then also it's. I still probably struggle to set boundaries solely for myself, but now it's just natural. I can't work late because I need to go home and be with my son. So my workday ends at a certain time hard stop because, like I have, you know, him at home, he needs me also. You know, my husband has been parenting alone for like three hours typically while I'm at work, and he's a great capable parent. He gets like all of the after daycare restraint collapse. So I always kind of want to make sure I'm there when I say I'm going to be to let him off the hook while he's like cooking dinner with like a toddler running around. So I feel like that's really helped and like it's given us like a really strict schedule and I think it's kind of an easy way to set a boundary.

Speaker 2: 6:38

Oh no, sorry, we can't do that. That's nap time, and even if it wasn't going to work, it was. It's a really good kind of out. That isn't dishonest, it's just the truth.

Speaker 1: 6:46

So yeah, totally yeah for sure. So I mean, before we get into a bunch of chitter chat, I guess I should let the people know how we know each other. So Cameron and I started. We worked together at having the salon. Experience was quite the era. So Cameron does hair too. Just was getting my hair cut a couple weeks ago and we were having a chat and yeah, she was like you know, I'll be on your podcast, as I was saying earlier, and I'm like heck, yeah, let's do it because, yeah, I think there's so much we can obviously chat about, but being a hairdresser meeting in that world, yes, yeah, I feel like, um, you were one of the first people in the industry that I like really clicked with and like made me feel like it was okay to be an individual in the just world of hairstyling.

Speaker 2: 7:32

I think, yeah, when I got into it I didn't really have any concept of myself and I feel like I just was trying to be like anyone who looked like they were successful and I feel like I remember meeting you and you've always just had this authenticity about yourself and realness I've always admired and it's so fun to see you like doing this now and cycle coaching and this podcast, because I remember there was something at the salon that had happened with period stuff and I felt so shamed and like I remember you just being no fuck that you went and like rip this note down that was put up. That was so petty.

Speaker 1: 8:05

Really, I don't remember this. What happened? Do you remember the story? Oh my God, I don't remember this at all.

Speaker 2: 8:07

I can't wait. Yes, I think that I had left a tampon applicator like in the wrapper, so it wasn't the loose like tampon, it was like the applicator in the wrapper, but it had been used. Somebody found it and, instead of pulling me aside, they made a note and put it on the bulletin board that said we need to make sure we're throwing away our feminine products. And I was like so upset by it and embarrassed Cause I was like dude, I was rushing out cause somebody needed my help and like I, just I missed that and, like you, I remember you literally like marched in, you've ripped the sign down and it's just so fitting that now you're like coaching this stuff and talking about it like unabashed like and making it, normalizing it, because it is so normal.

Speaker 2: 8:50

We and I remember thinking that at the time we're all girls, we all go through this, yet we're like shaming people for just like a common mistake that could happen, like yeah, you know, yeah, that is so crazy.

Speaker 1: 8:56

I don't remember that at all, but I love that you remember that story. That is so weird. And then also it's just a testament of what an unhealthy scene that was.

Speaker 2: 9:03

Like what the heck I would never be around anybody doing that no, literally that's the thing it's like so funny to think about now, like it's just like what in the world is so weird, petty? But yeah, I think it's just funny because I think about it a lot, like it tracks.

Speaker 2: 9:16

So much for you that you're doing this because you were like even then, like this is what? Seven years ago now, you were open and unafraid to talk about that stuff. I really really have always admired you for that. I just think you're like so real and so you've always just been a huge influence to me within this. Wow, Just like you know being yourself.

Speaker 1: 9:34

Cameron, thank you, that is so nice. It is so crazy growing up, because now I'm 30. How old are you now 28. 28. Because now I'm 30. How old are you now 28. 28. And there's actually a chunk of time that you can look back on and be like whoa, I've known that person for this long. Look how they've grown and done stuff. When you're young, you have nothing. You just graduated high school. Yes, exactly.

Speaker 2: 9:54

Right, yeah, that's so true. You just graduated high school. You also like I don't feel like I knew anything about myself until probably my mid twenties. People talk about that like 20 year old. I'm in my 20s. People talk about that like 20 year old, like that 24, 25 year old, second puberty, and like I remember. That feeling is crazy and like literally being like oh, I like do know a few things about myself after that happened, but before that I didn't and I was just so susceptible to like just falling into everyone around me. So, seeing people who like just really seem to have this like natural, like individuality about them like I always like loved that trait in people, like I just thought it was so cool to see.

Speaker 2: 10:27

So yeah, and helped me realize that it's okay for me to do that too you know just like, find who I am and be myself. You know, not be ashamed about that yeah, oh, hell, yeah, man.

Speaker 1: 10:36

Well, thank you of course yeah, oh my gosh of course. But yeah, I mean 20, because when did you graduate from beauty school?

Speaker 2: 10:45

I was, yeah, I was 20. I think I started in the salon yeah. Graduated and started in the salon. Maybe I might've been 19 and turned 20. That year, like I was young, at least like not. I think I turned 21 at the salon, so I was, yeah, like a baby coming into the world which I feel like we all were, cause it's something you go to school for like a year or four Because it's something you go to school for like a year or four?

Speaker 1: 11:02

Yeah, exactly. And then how did you hear about Heaven, like, why did you?

Speaker 2: 11:05

Well, it's funny, I actually had. I worked at a daycare before and my boss went there. She saw Teresa, so she would always talk about like how nice it was, but I thought like I wanted to work in Maryland, so I didn't think anything of it. I was like, yeah, that does sound really cool she. She'd talk about like the paraben hand treatments and everything that they did. So it's funny. So I had known about it from there. And then I was like looking for salons and two of the girls, um, that I went to school with ended up applying there. So I was like that's right, hey, why not, I'll apply too. It was closer to home than like what Frederick was and I'd been doing that drive for a year from West Virginia. So I ended up applying too, and you know the rest, which is funny but they both got hired on the spot and I didn't. I remember being so sad. And then I got like a call, like you know, five hours later and they hired me.

Speaker 1: 11:50

So yeah, wow, I mean it was like an empire the time that you came in, because there were a bunch of like Paul Mitchell school girls like we needed staff, we were getting busy, we were getting busy, we were like all like it was really going to be a thing.

Speaker 2: 12:03

Seriously, I remember starting there and there were like 20 stylists yeah, that's a huge salon.

Speaker 1: 12:08

Yeah, truly.

Speaker 2: 12:08

And that's not really the norm anymore. I don't think no, which is good Cause it's like chaotic.

Speaker 1: 12:14

It was chaotic, so chaotic. They had both of the sides Think about how the color bar looked and like that stood with every stylist as you're like handing foils.

Speaker 2: 12:23

But then they had that tv that never played anything but a paul mitchell video on repeat and then they started playing like wipe out or something like that, and then that would be watching people crash getting their hair done. It was funny.

Speaker 2: 12:33

It was like stadium seating which was so funny to think about like zach would always be, like that's so weird but whatever, and like people would trip over those things all the time, like the little foot bars didn't make sense but it was stadiums, literally it was just funny. But I remember like all the timers that'd be set up, like the tick, tick, tick in my head at night.

Speaker 1: 12:52

It was crazy the row of like chairs like to get your hair washed in, and the bar behind it like it was really something it was like the place to be.

Speaker 2: 13:02

You know it was cool.

Speaker 1: 13:03

You felt like a little rock star walking in there every day and you're all black Like yeah, I had some shit to do and when I look at the hair that I was doing then like I was trying so hard. So yeah, what do you? What do you think about being a hairstylist?

Speaker 2: 13:18

I really like it. I think it's uh, it's a job that I feel like is polarizing for people Like you. Really, I think either have to love it or you hate it. I mean, doing hair is cool, but I just really like I get to build a really cool community of people and that's awesome. I also feel like being independent. I've gotten to like curate my book to where it's people I really enjoy seeing and talking to. So I feel like, yeah, it's cool to get to be creative every day, but also like I get to hang out with people and talk to women and now, like being a mom, I get to talk to a lot of other moms and like be a part of that community and sometimes just like just trying to talk about things and be like so open and kind of like break stigmas around things. So it's cool to get to feel seen by other people and make other people feel seen. I think it's like the best part about our job.

Speaker 1: 14:07

Yeah, totally. What do you think is the hardest thing about for you? About being a hairstylist?

Speaker 2: 14:12

Uh, pressure, I think that's a good one. Yeah, I think I. You know I go to therapy and I've talked about it a lot. I do feel like I think we do have a lot of pressure in this industry because, like we're really putting like people are being vulnerable when they sit down in our seat and like I really want to honor that and like honor their vulnerability and make sure that I'm like not only being respectful of that but also their time, and like I like, really like want to make sure that I'm giving everybody, you know, the best that I can, and so I do get stressed out about like people are, know people are, like they're trusting us so much when they sit down. And like you know our hair even if we try not to make it a big, like part of our identity, it is.

Speaker 1: 14:52

Yeah, like whenever people are like it grows back, I'm like, yeah, it's going to take a minute, you're going to feel weird for months. It's not that simple. Like I love that you're trying to act simple, but it's not.

Speaker 2: 15:01

It's not, yeah, and I'm like I've done this long enough to know that like you can have that idea, but it only sticks for like 24 hours and like also it's happened to me where I'm like it's just hair, do it, and then like I don't feel like myself for like eight weeks until it started to grow back.

Speaker 2: 15:13

Yeah, but yes, yeah, it's funny Cause there are people and there are people who really mean that like, especially women, we do have a lot of our identity tied into our hair and so I do think there is a lot of pressure and I sometimes just get like I think I handle it well to people, but I struggle with it and internalizing it.

Speaker 2: 15:34

So I like I get anxiety starting my day sometimes, like if I know like I'll kind of like think about my day, I play it too much, and then I feel stressed, like I gosh, I'm gonna run behind here, I don't want to make so and so mad. And it's funny, like talking with my therapist about it. Like most people are way cooler than we give them the benefit to be. Like I think we I don't give people the benefit of the doubt in my head enough. Like I know these are all cool people, but I get so stressed like what if this is the time that like they get mad at me? So it's funny, funny and like all of my clients, like I'll try to give them a heads up if I'm running behind and they're always like cool, take your time, I'll go grab a coffee, like for the most part people are so like cool and understanding, so, but I do think I get in my own head more than anything.

Speaker 1: 16:14

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Do you think that the way? Because it is funny, because would you say that you're an anxious person, that you like have anxiety, or? Um, yeah, definitely yes.

Speaker 2: 16:27

I have anxiety and sometimes I'm like is that nature or nurture? You know, like, do I also have ADHD, which can give you like a lot of anxious thoughts? So I think I literally have two different types of anxiety. I think I just have like generalized anxiety, but then I also have ADHD anxiety, um, and so it's hard to tell which one's which, um, but I just feel like there's just too much going on in my brain. Most of the time it's just up there.

Speaker 1: 16:48

Yeah. So yeah, I was going to say I think that, first off, it's kind of surprising that you're able to do that. People that are anxious, um, are even able to do hair because of the pressure, like it is a lot, yeah. Yeah. Where has there ever been a time where you're like, do have you ever had like a panic attack, or ever had a time where you were like I can't do this, like I guess it's the relationships that keep you in it, right?

Speaker 2: 17:11

Yeah, I think that there have. Definitely. I think it's burnout for me, like I don't, like I I'm sure there have been times where I've just like. I definitely have times where I've like cried and like just like really like freaked out about stuff, but not like, I guess, like a full blown panic attack, um. But yeah, I definitely think there've been times where I'm like I can't do this anymore, like I can't handle this. But then typically, when I get there, something happens.

Speaker 2: 17:30

I have a client who, like we just have like the best time, or they like thank me and just say something that I'm like this is why I do it, like you know, just really being able to build somebody up and make somebody feel good about themselves. And I think, since I've always been anxious, like I've been able to just have self-talk, and it's gotten easier throughout the year, years having those self-talks, because when I first started taking clients, I would literally shake so bad. I like be like, haha, my espresso just kicked in, teehee, but I was actually anxious. And then I would like be in my car thinking about everything I said. Did I say something weird, like or is this person going to not like me for that? And like I would like put myself, like I would drive myself crazy, thinking about everything I said all day long.

Speaker 2: 18:12

And so now I think I've kind of even accidentally before starting like a mental health journey, I think I I started to put like, um, you know, just like tools in place to like, okay, if I'm going to overthink in my car, I'm gonna listen to like an audiobook or a podcast, which is kind of kind of shut my brain off, have a longer drive. By the time I get home I've kind of forgotten about it. And then, of course, like talking to Zach, like I can kind of vent those things out and I think he's so like. I also think like if I didn't have him, that would be a whole different ball game, because he's like the most chill person ever and he's like it's not that big of a deal, or he can like laugh things off with me and be like that's so funny, but they probably didn't care and so I think he's been like really grounding and I think he's I don't know.

Speaker 2: 18:50

I think there were times where I started I was like I can't do this and he was like, yes, you can like you can do it. So he's been always my cheerleader and just kind of talked me down off a ledge a lot of times yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 1: 19:02

Do you feel differently about it now, like, do you still feel pressured now? Or do you feel like you? Because sometimes it's like with experience, like you realize how people are or you're like, oh, I was worried they were going to do this, but enough times of seeing that they're not going to do that, you sort of can lose some of that or just with time and experience and perspective, I don't know.

Speaker 2: 19:22

Yeah, I do think it's not as heavy now, like I do think I still feel that like normal anxiety, but it's not what it used to be by any means, and I do think you're right, like I definitely think, with experience and knowing that like I can really, like I've done mostly all haircuts I know I understand the color process, how things are going to happen most of the time. I also know how to fix something if it goes wrong. Um, and I also know those questions to ask to hopefully prevent something going wrong Hopefully this age as well. But you know, I think I do think that it does help a lot because a lot of it is walking into the unknown.

Speaker 2: 19:55

Every single day, your client could completely change their mind from what you did last time. Every day is different. I think that's the really big, a huge benefit of this industry is that every day is different. I think that's the really like a huge benefit of this industry is that every day is different and that I think that keeps it exciting for me. But also there is anxiety in the fact that every day is different. I don't know exactly what I'm walking into every single day, but knowing how to handle that helps a lot.

Speaker 1: 20:17

Yeah, yeah, no doubt it's an interesting thing. Like the whole thing is really I don't know. Know like it's so interesting to be able to just like we're just talking to people all day long about their lives, while also curating a look for them that they're going to keep with them until they get rid of it. Like it's kind of a crazy thing it really is.

Speaker 2: 20:40

it's funny. I actually, um, I was going, I saw a psychiatry like NP and he was like, have you ever considered being a therapist? And I was like, yeah, that's funny. You asked that. I mean, I've definitely thought about it. And he was like, cause you're already kind of doing the job. He was like you're already like really honing these skills and talk to people. And he was like, um, you know, of course he was like you're just you're not trained on how to process these things that you're hearing. So it's funny because it was like validating in the sense of like, yeah, we really like we do two separate things, like we really like build people up with what we talk about.

Speaker 2: 21:13

And I do think, as I've got especially being independent, like I feel like I'm more comfortable to talk about an array of things with people. So I have like more honest, deep conversations with clients now. But also, yeah, we are creating at the same time and, yeah, hopefully creating something for people that they like and yeah, they're going to carry on with them for a while. So, but it has been interesting. I've had a lot of people lately who have made me realize the experience is so much of it Like. So I've had a couple of clients who have gone other places in between, like if it's closer to their house, I don't know. None of that stuff really like makes me, you know, upset. So but they'll be like explaining to me like oh, I went here and I'm, and they were kind of seeming weird and I'm like, well, you're, both times their hair has looked really pretty, but they've kind of expressed like the experience wasn't the same. You know you want to like your hairstylist and I think that goes a long way.

Speaker 1: 22:08

so yeah, I do too. I do too. It really does and like and like probably Zach has said a thousand times like you know, it's not that deep, but like it is, but like it really isn't, and it does. It gets to the point where it's like all right, well, here's the. This is what I have to offer you either want it or you don't, and I'm going to do my best and that's it really.

Speaker 2: 22:31

All you really can do is give it all you've got you know and do your best. That's really all we can do. We're human beings at the end of the day. Yeah, and I do think, being in control of my own book, I'm sure you feel this way, like I've really honed it down to people who don't make me feel weird, exactly you know, if somebody makes me feel like itchy and on edge, I'm probably going to find a way to kindly let them go, because I don't want to work like that I don't either.

Speaker 2: 22:54

I don't care yeah. There's no way I already make up enough pressure to put. There are people who are like picky about their hair but also like really kind and understanding, and I'm cool with that. Yeah, I kind of like that. Actually, it gives me a really no more. No black, you know, no gray area. It's very black and white for me, so I like that. But it's the people who you never quite feel like you can get it right, or there's always just this underlying tone of yeah, with you or something, the energy's off.

Speaker 1: 23:22

It's like just that simple, but it's enough to really stick with me for like the rest of the day. Sometimes, like it's just like or like you.

Speaker 2: 23:30

They're coming in and like you're just kind of feeling like anxious about it all day, like I started just kind of paying attention to, like when I was feeling that, why I was feeling that is it what they're looking for and maybe it's just not like my specialty or is it just them as a person, and kind of feeling that out. And then you know, sometimes it's just as simple as like just they. We both kind of are feeling that way and other times you have to just kind of let people know that you don't think you're the fit. Yeah, I know, you know just being and doing it in a kind way, but just being honest about it, because it's like both of us are going to feel better probably like you, yeah, like why are we doing this to each other?

Speaker 1: 24:12

like let's just like not be doing this, like, yeah, somebody's gotta call it here exactly.

Speaker 2: 24:17

I feel like that's the thing, like people think like they're gonna hurt my feelings, like no, literally. Like I want to cry when I see your name because I know you don't like your hair and you really don't like what I'm doing, and like you're not doing me a favor, coming here just because of just because you feel like you have to like that is not helping me no it's like, yeah, I don't need that thank you for looking out, I guess. But yeah, if you don't like your hair, it's, it's okay it's all good.

Speaker 1: 24:38

Okay, it's all good. Yeah, because, honestly, at the end of the day, this is supposed to be fun. Yeah, exactly, this is supposed to be like yay, I get to go get my hair done and sit here and somebody's gonna play with my hair and make me look gorgeous and I get to have a fun little combo, drink my whatever and go home Exactly and feel better.

Speaker 2: 24:55

Yeah, get some good like girly self-care time.

Speaker 1: 24:57

Yeah, go home and feel great, yeah, that's all this is, and if it's going to be negative, there's literally no reason for it to be negative, yeah. There's no really no benefit out of that. Why would it be really? If you break it down like we're doing this fun, nice thing today? Exactly, you're not.

Speaker 2: 25:12

I don't know what we're doing, right, exactly, yeah, it just should be fun. So I think I've done like, I really think, like I've, yeah, honed it down to where, like, those are the people I have coming in like it's fun, we have great conversation, we laugh, I'm able to give them the hair that they're really wanting. They're happy with their hair, they're happy with the experience, we have fun. That's everybody's good yeah exactly, and it's a cool community of people. I'd be friends with, you know, outside of it, yeah, and that's what I like.

Speaker 1: 25:32

So yeah, exactly. So you and Zach were together. How old were you when you guys first got?

Speaker 2: 25:38

together. I was 15 when we started dating. He was 17,. So he, yeah, I think he was 16, 17,. Yeah, so he. I was a sophomore, he was a senior, look at us. But yeah, so dating since high school, so for a long time, yeah, did you guys ever break?

Speaker 1: 25:54

up.

Speaker 2: 25:55

No, yeah, I never had like a well, we definitely had like because we were long distance for a year. He lived in Massachusetts and so we definitely had like spats and that was hard in general and we were both so young, um, so yeah, we definitely like it wasn't always perfect and we would have like I'd be like I'm done, I'm not doing this, and then he'd be like, no, we're not doing that and so you know. But other than that. Yeah, we've. I mean, we've been together, you know that whole time.

Speaker 1: 26:16

So yeah, consistently so wow, and then how old were you when you got?

Speaker 2: 26:20

married.

Speaker 2: 26:21

It's 20 yeah he was 22, which is funny. Now, being 28, I see 20 year olds getting married. I'm like you know, and now I'm like I was 20 and I was so short and I still would do it again. Like I think I would like to get married again as like a 28 year old to Zach again and just like have our wedding be like really cool and who we are like. I loved our wedding, it was beautiful, but it's funny. We know ourselves so much better. But it is funny kind of being 28 now and sometimes I tell people I got married at 20 and I feel like I have to like defend it a little bit. Yeah, like it's funny. I didn't. It really shouldn't be that way, but it is yeah.

Speaker 1: 26:53

Cause I, you worked at Heaven then and it didn't seem weird to anyone. I feel like like it did seem like, yeah, she's younger, I guess, but we don't think about it like that because their relationship seems so like mature, normal, like it was not weird, right?

Speaker 2: 27:07

No, I think that was the thing too. Like, yeah, our family was all in on it. Like you know, we had been together for five years by that point, you know. And so, yes, we were so young we started dating, but I have always been like pretty mature for my age, like I grew up fast cause I was the youngest of six kids who were all the closest in age to me is four years older than one of the sisters I'm closest with is seven years older than me. So I just like always kept up with them. So I think at 15, I was probably functioning more like an 18 year old. So I do feel like, you know, I was pretty sure about what I wanted by that point in my life. And you know we were living together pretty much by that time. So nothing was going to be different, we were just going to be married.

Speaker 1: 27:45

So yeah, cause your personality. Do you feel like you're a very like grounded, steady person or no? Or like a risk taker? Not really.

Speaker 2: 27:53

Yes, no, I would definitely say I'm pretty grounded, like I've really, for the most part, known what I've wanted. I'm not yeah, I'm not a huge risk taker, I think, which served me well, because I probably um would have made worse decisions if I wasn't such a like, I think, being anxious, but also, I just think, naturally being like pretty grounded. I'm an earth sign. I'm a T Taurus. I was born on earth day.

Speaker 1: 28:14

That's what I was going to ask, which is funny, yeah, so I'm like earth as earthy as earthy gets.

Speaker 2: 28:18

So I do think it does. It's where I'm like naturally pretty grounded so I have just kind of I like always kind of wanted this and it's where I ended up, so yeah.

Speaker 1: 28:28

Nothing. So you got married at 20 and then like you, yeah, and you and Zach were like little adults, like even when I was coming to your house, like I was what? 24, probably that when did you guys have that little?

Speaker 2: 28:38

townhouse. Oh yeah, I think we bought it like six months after we got married well, we were. We had already had a contract on it, but it got finished getting built. I guess not six months, it was like August. We got married in July, we moved in August. So yeah, we got it. I was 20 and he was 22 when we he technically bought the first house. My credit score was like 1.2 low to be able to sign.

Speaker 2: 28:57

So it was our house respectively, but it was his house. So yeah, we were young. You know, it's just babies when you think about it.

Speaker 1: 29:04

But your house was like not like it looked like a little adult's house, like you guys really were little adults. You were doing little adult things Like you were were. When did you guys first start like traveling and stuff?

Speaker 2: 29:13

because you guys have always cared about traveling and like to travel right yeah, I think we took our first like big trip, that first, our first year married. Well, of course, we did our honeymoon and then I think we went to Chicago after that and then we went to Iceland like a couple years later, and that was our first like big trip together, aside from our honeymoon. So, yeah, but yeah, we've always wanted to travel and, like you, you know, do all those things and I do feel like, yeah, we were just like kids in adult costumes, but we did it well.

Speaker 1: 29:38

You know, like we really like yeah, like you were like little adults, like immediately, like at 20, you were like had a career, married, traveling with my hubby decorating the house, getting a dog like very grounded, like mature things, yeah it's, but not boring, no, and I think that's the thing.

Speaker 2: 29:53

We were having fun. But like that is also like Zach. He is so like he's and he's like type a but like type b presenting, but he is very much like he's the person that keeps our like our finances in check, like he cares about a credit score. He helped me build my credit score and, like he's just always had his ducks in a row in that sense, and his mom did did a really good job, like you know. She built his credit score. She put like him on the insurance their car insurance, the second he could be on it which like, and then got him a credit card in his name that she paid the bills for Like, so he had like a great credit score by the time he was like 18. So she kind of set him up and then, you know, really taught him about those things and so, yeah, he's always just kind of had that stuff figured out, which I think helped a lot, because I had no idea what I was doing and sometimes I still don't know what I'm doing with that stuff.

Speaker 2: 30:41

What is his sign? He, oh, I think he's a cancer. He's a Gemini cancer. Cusp.

Speaker 2: 30:43

He's the 21st of June, okay so he was a Gemini, but then I guess, when things change he's a cancer.

Speaker 1: 30:48

But yeah, he's very much like a cusper yeah, who wanted um to have a kid more, him or you?

Speaker 2: 30:53

um, I think I would say we were both pretty even. We both knew we wanted we've also, we thought we wanted a lot of kids, which is okay, yeah, um, but then I went through a period, like in my like, when I was probably like 22, 23, like, yeah, 22 probably, where I couldn't imagine like caring for another human, and so I was like I don't think that I want to have kids. And he was like no, like we're having kids. Man like we talked about, this was funny. And I was like, yeah, I guess you're right, I think I was just like going through that phase of my life, but it was funny. He was like, uh, no, so I guess him, which is funny, but I think we both wanted it, probably about the same amount yeah, because he's like really into it.

Speaker 1: 31:26

I think it's so funny. Whenever there's like pictures of you guys, it's always from Zach, right? He's the one that has posted an album with a cute caption and like family photos. It's like not your post, it's always his post which I love.

Speaker 2: 31:39

It's so cute, I know he really is like you, like see, like a dad, where you're like wow, like they're really doing like that is him like, yeah, I know it's so funny.

Speaker 2: 31:48

We were talking, talking to my sister we're like laughing about how like the bar is in hell for dads, like women will see like a dad out in public just like holding their kid and be like, wow, you are such a good dad, and it's funny, but he really is, he's such a great dad and he is so involved in just like really just trying to think of ways to like make things special for him and so it's it's really sweet to see. So, yeah, he's always, I feel like always wanted to be a dad and he is, he's a great dad.

Speaker 1: 32:12

Yeah, he's really cute. So what are the dynamics of your relationship? Why do you think that you guys have been able to stay together since 15 to now? Because that's what?

Speaker 2: 32:22

How many years 12, going to 13 in December. Yeah, yeah, I think number one. I just think we really like each other. I think that that helps. No-transcript, lot of time for the two of us. Um, so there you know, for years we had Sunday together. That was it. That was our only day. There were days that he would get home from work after 10 o'clock. We didn't see each other. But I mean so I think we let ourselves grow independently, but I think that we were so intentional about, like, keeping the connection alive with the two of us that, like we had the freedom to grow as independent people but also, like, have, like, liked each other and kept the same core like morals, values and just like you know, just like of each other at, you know, at the heart of it all. So we just enjoy each other. So I think that's a big part of it, yeah, exactly Enjoying each other.

Speaker 1: 33:34

And then it seems like you guys have a lot of like safety in the relationship and respect in the relationship in order to let the other person grow, because really, the only reason that you would stop the other person from growing is because you feel insecure or unsafe or like they're going to outgrow you or something like that.

Speaker 2: 33:49

Exactly, and I think that's like the big thing and that took, I mean, it took me a long time to learn it, because I do think, like I have like a weird attachment style, like I'm like an anxious avoidant, like that's like a weird one to be, but, um, so I did. I do feel like when I was younger I had trouble with that, but then you have to realize at a certain point, like I don't, I don't want someone that's with me because they feel like they have to be. So I think we've both tried to give each other that freedom to become our own people, also, knowing that like if you don't, that backfires on you. But there is like the safety of knowing that like we're each other's people, like we don't want anyone else, you know, at the end of the day, like we just love each other so much. So I think that we both do just feel like really secure in that, and I think that makes a big difference too.

Speaker 1: 34:37

Yeah, totally. How was it transitioning to having a kid together and into that like passage Cause you know, you, you're probably, I would assume, not the same as you were you know, after becoming a mother. Like everyone, changes. So how did that transition go? Because how old is Lonnie now?

Speaker 2: 34:56

he's two and a half, so, yeah, I know he's at a very fun age. He's just a big, a big personality. Um, yeah, it was hard. I mean truly it's hard because you spend, and I think, what we had been together almost 10 years when we had Lonnie, and so all of that time our main focus was the two of us. And then you add in your child, who is, should be, the center of your world, and your priorities change. At the end of the day, both of our priorities were Lonnie, and that's how it should be. But that's hard because then you have to be even more intentional about having time the two of you. Um, well, also with less time, because you have a baby and you know you're so busy with that and if you're working then there's just so much less time to do that. So I mean, I definitely think we struggled in the beginning with that, not to the point where, like, our relationship was in trouble, but like just trying to find that time and I, we definitely bickered more. You're more tired. Um, it's easy to feel like you've been doing more and vice versa. So, like, I'm sure there were times where resentment happened on both sides. Um, so it was a.

Speaker 2: 36:01

It was a hard transition at first and um, but I feel, like you know, at the core of it, he would still make sure he planned date nights and things like that, which made me feel really special, and I think that we both acknowledged it, which helped. Like this is this is going to be hard. We're going to go through a phase where, like we're kind of being teammates more so than, like you know, these passionate lovers we want, like we're teammates, like we're now in this, to like raise this, raise our son. Like there are times where we're not going to be able to focus on the two of us, and that's okay, and so I think that that just acknowledging it helped a lot, because there were times that it was hard, but at the end of the day, we still had this like common goal and we, you know, just loved each other through it and tried to give each other grace, which is challenging when you're, like, really tired but we did.

Speaker 1: 36:47

Do you feel like you for the most part did it was 50 50 or did you feel like that was a hard balance?

Speaker 2: 36:55

yeah, I think it was. Um, I think it definitely was 50 50, honestly, except for when it came to sleep, but that wasn't Zach's fault. Um, so I breastfed, and so that comes with its own set of challenges, and so he really did what he could and I feel like he probably felt on his end a little more so like it was less 50-50 because he was doing so much like support work, like he was the person who made sure that dinner was made, he kept our house clean, he kept our laundry going, and then I was really kind of most of the time glued to nursing, and so you know, you're nursing them so many times a day. You're not really able to be mobile while you're doing that, and then too. So but then I it's easy to lose sight of the fact that like he's not just sitting around chilling with his feet up, like keeping our home functioning.

Speaker 2: 37:44

But then I'd feel frustrated because you know I was doing a lot of baby care and of course he would like help change diapers, you know and that thing.

Speaker 2: 37:52

But I have like a parasite now like that's taking from you 24 seven and you're like well, lucky you, you don't have this going on, you know like, but I would love to sit down and hold the baby, you know, and so it's also like your body's doing so you're expelling so much energy like nursing. So I was tired and then he Lonnie was not a great sleeper, not even until recently, and so I would nurse him and most like sometimes when I went back to work, I was getting like two and a half hours of sleep at night. Um, and Zach could go in and he would try, but he didn't want him, he wanted me. I was his comfort, I was also. He would nurse to sleep, so he would help, but there really wasn't much he could do, so it was on me. But that was by no fault, you know, of his or mine. It's just how it worked out. So, yeah, I would say we definitely split it 50 50. It was just like not what you would imagine 50, 50.

Speaker 1: 38:38

So what, um, what was it like going back to work as a hairdresser specifically with all that going on, because I feel like you give so much energy doing. I think doing hair is a lot of energy because you're talking and you're physically, literally like doing something right as well.

Speaker 2: 38:53

Yeah, it was hard. I mean you're it's yeah, it's physical and you're tired, and also then you're trying to balance, like I was trying to balance pumping and doing hair, and like we don't have time to sit down, you know a couple of times, but like when you're first back.

Speaker 2: 39:06

When I was first back to work, I needed to pump every two and a half hours, like trying to find that time was hard, so that was a hard balance to create, um, and so then I just started wearing like a wearable pump which so I would just pump with my clients, and they were also nice about it. But, um, I think there was a big benefit to it and that was the fact that, like I can't imagine doing a job where I was just sitting and like not talking to people, because those first days of leaving him were so hard, and like talking to my clients really helped take my mind off of it. Like I remember my first day back, I like blubbered my whole way to work. I was crying because I missed him and I got to work and I got to talk about him all day long and that was so cool. All my clients wanted to hear about how everything went and how he was doing and see baby pictures, and so my day went so fast because I was fully booked.

Speaker 2: 39:54

Yeah, um, you know. And then, of course, like I was tired when I got home but I got to like get on the couch with him immediately and nurse him and like kind of relax. So it was. There were definitely pros and cons to it, for sure, yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 1: 40:08

Yeah, when did you start your mental health journey and what did that look like?

Speaker 2: 40:13

So I didn't get that started until January, although I should have started it probably a long time ago. But especially early days postpartum, I really struggled with postpartum depression and anxiety, Did you?

Speaker 1: 40:25

think about that at all. Like were you, like I better gear up, because this is probably I'm going to probably be a candidate for this, or this might come up for me Like what was your kind of?

Speaker 2: 40:33

I thought that I would just be like anxious, like I just thought I would have like postpartum anxiety. I didn't expect to get hit with postpartum depression the way I did, because I've never really been a person who struggles with depression, but I think that my depression came from anxiety. Honestly, I would be so worried that I did things wrong or like did I hold him the wrong way and did that hurt him, and then I would start feeling kind of like a failure, um, and so then that would kind of sink me into a sad place, um. But so Zach like kind of caught it and I realized something was going on, but I was like crying a lot, I was feeling really down, um. So I talked to my doctor about it but they but they're not really trained to anything other than to just write you a prescription for medication.

Speaker 2: 41:18

But that's challenging and that's a big decision to make for people, because they say you can breastfeed on it.

Speaker 2: 41:24

But then you read and that is kind of some people see it as like not safe.

Speaker 2: 41:28

So you read a lot of conflicting things, conflicting things. So I just kind of ignored it because I felt like a lot of the things that I expected going into being a mom I didn't do and breastfeeding was one of those things I always knew I wanted to do and I was doing, and so I didn't want anything that took away from that. Now I wish I could go back and talk to new Cameron and be like new mom Cameron and be like it's okay, like you can either stop breastfeeding there's no failure in that or you can breastfeed him and take the medication Like it's okay. But so I really just like was in survival mode because I didn't do anything. I mean, I had talked about it and I tried to be open about it, which I think was helpful and, of course, like Zach like always was my rock and like talked me through so much of it and was so supportive and understanding and also like veryating and helped cheer me on and remind me I was a good mom.

Speaker 1: 42:15

Um, because was it mostly about all around like baby stuff.

Speaker 2: 42:19

Yeah, for the most part, and then I would just feel like I wasn't doing enough. I'd feel like a failure, I feel like I wasn't a good mom and like really for no one found no, really no good reason, because that's probably the one thing I was doing a really great job at was being a mom, you know, and being there for Lonnie, and really he was a thing that was keeping me going too, you know, in those times where, like, depression really hit, I also like I didn't want, you know, I wanted to be there for him, and so he was, you know, even though it was the challenging part was having a baby. He was the thing that really kept me going. So I decided that I would really make like a life change once I was done nursing. And then I ended up nursing for two years, so in January of this, of 2024, I guess technically it was December 2023.

Speaker 2: 43:05

I like started to see a therapist and then I, in talking to her, she, I did a little like assessment with her and she said that I seemed like I could have ADHD. She couldn't diagnose it but, based off the assessment, I was like in the 99th percentile. So she referred me to a psychiatrist and that's where I started, like all of the medication journey in that part of it yeah, how did you feel?

Speaker 2: 43:28

about all of that. It was hard. I think that I it's interesting because I never, ever judged anyone else for taking medication. I like think that you should do what's right for you and I always wholeheartedly believed that. But when it came to myself, I was very nervous and I also was scared because I didn't know how it was going to affect me. And I feel like in our culture we hear so much about like how it makes us a zombie and all of these things, and like people really talk about the negatives a lot more than they talk about, um, the positives, and so I was scared.

Speaker 2: 44:00

I didn't want to be incapacitated. So I was really nervous and I actually like taking the first pills was really hard, um, and then I took them, was like, oh, it's not that serious, like I feel, okay, I definitely my first medication they put me on. I had side effects, but they weren't like so bad that I couldn't live my life. And then when I saw my you know, I saw my psychiatrist the next time. I told him they changed medication. So it really is such like a crapshoot. You're just trying to figure out what works for you, but it was nerve wracking. I think we just there is such a stigma, even if it's trying to be broken right now it is, and so trying to break that in my own self. Even, like I said, I didn't have judgment with anybody else. I fully supported anyone's medication journey, but it was hard to do on my own, for sure.

Speaker 1: 44:44

Yeah, what do you think was the point that you were like, okay, like this is worth it to me to do this, like why were you at the point where you were like, all right, I guess I need to be seeing a therapist and be open to a diagnosis of ADHD and be open to taking meds, like yeah, I think really I just felt like really being a mom added to everything else.

Speaker 2: 45:08

I definitely think I always felt like I had to put a lot more coping skills in than other people to like just manage the day to day. And there were so many things that I was just like, why can't I do this, like everybody else can do this, why can't I do it? And I always felt a little different. But I think I had more time, like I had more time to mask, I had more time to figure things out, and then you add a baby into the mix and then you had a toddler who's always, ever moving. You're just anybody, I think, who has a toddler is going to be distracted.

Speaker 2: 45:35

But then I realized that like I'm like just constantly chasing my tail, um, and so I was really struggling actually going back to work after I had like two weeks off, like probably 10 days off around Christmas, and I realized like I felt like calm and I think it was because I had like one thing taken out of my routine and so I was expressing that to my therapist and I was just saying like I'm nervous to go back to work because the pressure is on again and I have this new year and I want to do better this year, but I can't put these systems into place because I don't know how and I was like I have imposter syndrome and so you know, then we kind of taught I I actually brought up ADHD because I was like I wonder if that's why I just can't seem to put these systems into place and so once.

Speaker 1: 46:19

What types of things were you trying to do that you're like I just can't why, or like, why is this harder for me and not other people?

Speaker 2: 46:26

I, just I, it was so much avoidance like I I would never make color orders because, like my brain just like wouldn't let me, or like when it came to like I would be forgetting to message clients back, and then it would get like so built up that then I was like I can't even look at that. Um, and then like setting policies and like just anything that came with like the back end of what we do, like I was totally fine with doing the hair, but it was so much of like the business stuff on the other side that like I just it was hard to me so I just couldn't make myself do it.

Speaker 1: 46:56

That's so surprising to me too, because of you. We were just saying earlier of being like an earth sign and a grounded person, so in theory, this should not be hard for you, right? Like it's not, like you have this crazy life that you just can't get to it.

Speaker 2: 47:09

Exactly, and that's the thing. And it was so, like. So then then I started really looking into it and it makes so it's such a common ADHD thing. It's just like if something feels hard, telling you like, don't do it, like, and so you avoid hard things. You also avoid boring things, which is funny, but you're you just naturally avoid hard things, and so you know, then I was talking to my therapist about that and I was just like I don't know, it could be ADHD.

Speaker 2: 47:34

So then she actually gave me the assessment and I think I just realized like I'm just willing to try. It can't hurt, and if it does then I'll just stop. But, like what, you know, what's the what's the harm in trying? Finally, um, and if it helps me, that would be huge, and at least if it doesn't, I can say I tried it.

Speaker 2: 47:50

So that's just really where I had gotten, like I was just willing to try anything that would just help me be able to put more systems in place in my life, and just feel like I wasn't constantly chasing my tail, because I would just start so many things and just never finish them, and it just felt like this constant battle of like trying to get things done, forgetting what I was doing. And then a lot of shame comes from that, because when you're not finishing tasks or you're having trouble accomplishing them, then you start beating yourself up around around those things and so you start to feel like a failure because you're not able to do those things. So I just wanted to kind of alleviate that pressure on myself, and so it has helped with that, I would say.

Speaker 1: 48:30

Yeah, no, that's awesome. Yeah, did you feel kind of like yeah, I guess you just said yeah like a failure, kind of like I'm dumb, why can't I do this Like and like. Then I feel like would then fuck with your like confidence and things like that, which then makes the pressure more on because you think that you're a failure, like so you're right it is.

Speaker 2: 48:46

It's like this cycle of just like never getting out, of feeling like kind of like shit, right about stuff, yes, and you just feel like, and you feel like I'm different, like I'm weird, like my brain just doesn't work the same way as other people's. But before I just thought it was some like weird character flaw of mine and now I kind of have like this, I like group of people that are also like exactly like me, that I can identify with, which feels really nice. But for a long time I just felt like I couldn't show who I was because I was different than people and my brain didn't work the same. So I was constantly like also, it makes sense, I'm anxious.

Speaker 2: 49:23

I think that I was constantly putting on this like mask of this person who was functioning like everybody else and I wasn't. I couldn't, no matter how hard I tried, and I was really really good about keeping that appearance. But then at home I was so messy, like if zach and I would fight. It was about the fact that I just always dropped the ball on those. I would like, wanted to be this like perfect housewife. That was just not me. It was never going to be me. I just like couldn't.

Speaker 2: 49:46

I'm the husband who leaves their socks by the hamper, you know, and can't seem to do the dishes, and you know it's always messy leaving this trail of destruction, and so I think he felt a lot of pressure to clean up after me and like that gets frustrating over a period of time and so, but then I would, just, I'm just trying, I just don't know why I can't do it, and so it was. It was frustrating to me, and so I feel like I spent so much time keeping this appearance to the outside world that I was this high functioning person and then at home I was just like slacking so hard, and so it's just a lot of mental energy to do that for sure.

Speaker 1: 50:18

Yeah. So then what would it look like when you, finally, I need to make a color order, I need to call these people back or I need to clean up?

Speaker 2: 50:29

So typically it would be because, like I felt the pressure one day and then I would like do everything in one day but then I feel like burnt out you know, because I, you know, get into the zone where you know I was hyper-focusing, but then I would just feel like really burnt out afterwards because I saved everything that I should have been doing for weeks to do in like one day, and I probably had just like just during nap time to do it, you know. And also I didn't have any inventory systems in place, so every time I was ordering I was literally just guessing, which. That made me anxious, because I'm just like, oh man, I have this person coming and I better get this, but I might already have it at the salon. So, you know, there was that pressure, so that also made it me avoid it too. So, but yeah, a lot of just playing catch up and scrambling around to do things.

Speaker 1: 51:11

Yeah, wow, yeah. So how does it feel now?

Speaker 2: 51:14

So I think it's. It's interesting now because I think we put a lot of stake into medication like that. It's going to change everything Right, but at the end of the day there's also a lot of behavioral things that I need to change, and I do think that that's like perk to getting diagnosed when you're younger. I think it's hard because you have this title on you, but I do think it helps you because if you know from a young age, you can start putting those coping skills into place. So by the time you're older you do kind of you hear people growing out of it. They didn't grow out of it, but they have all of these you know great foundation in place to cope with it.

Speaker 2: 51:51

But now I, you know I'm 28 years and I'm kind of late to the game. So I feel like medication helps me focus, but now I have to learn what to focus on, and so those struggles are still there. I just have more mental energy now to address them head on. And so, yeah, I started business consulting with ASHA. You know that helps and that's not something like I think that I would have had the mental capacity to do before medication. I can also put systems in place for self-care now, and also I'm on anxiety medication too, which helps me use my logic brain more than you know, like my fight or flight brain, which helps too to be able to just kind of like take a deep breath, stop the overthinking and like actually spend time doing the things I'm supposed to do.

Speaker 2: 52:34

But I still struggle with it. I still will avoid things. You know, medication or not. So I heard someone say medication is just going to help you focus. It's not going to tell you what to focus on. It's very true, like it will focus your mind, but if you don't know what to focus on, you're going to have no idea what you're doing. So it's a lot of learning too, and learning what you struggle with, what type of ADHD you have and how you know you put those systems into place with your medication.

Speaker 1: 53:00

Not your medication doesn't do that, for you Right, exactly, medication, not your medication doesn't do that for you, right, exactly because there has to be back end stuff that you are also actively doing to change whatever habits that you've created throughout your whole life to do your best.

Speaker 2: 53:11

Yes, you know, I'm still gonna take my shirt off and throw it on the floor yeah but I think my medication lets my brain slow down enough to be like turn around and pick that up. So like.

Speaker 2: 53:20

I'm thinking about things a little more because there's not so much going on in my head, because before there was just a thousand different thoughts running through my head at one time and they're all at the same volume. So important things and unimportant things are in your head at the same time and there's no differentiating them. The neurotypical brain is gonna have one thought be quiet because it doesn't matter. And one thought be really loud because it's important. But that's not what happens in the ADHD brain. Everything's being shouted at you at the same volume and it's overwhelming. So of course you're like tired. Of course you don't have the energy Just do these things that seem so simple, but to you, when you have so much going on in your head, they're not. They're just that little extra bit of energy. Just turning around to pick up your shirt can feel tiring when it's not, but that is how it feels when there's so much going on yeah, because that's what I was gonna ask.

Speaker 1: 54:08

How would people know the difference between no I just don't feel like putting my color order in versus no, I like can't, are people just messy? Or like do they not have the capacity right, and I yeah?

Speaker 2: 54:19

that's so true? Because I think it's. Can you do it when you know you need to do it?

Speaker 2: 54:24

Would be the thing to ask yourself Like we're all going to get messy, we're all going to let our car get messy sometimes, we're all going to like, have, like our vanity, be a hot mess. Can you, once a week, go in and clean it and like you feel really good after? Or once a week you see it and you feel really shameful, which then makes you avoid it, and then you like just pretend you're just going to close that door and not go in there until it's time to do your makeup again, and then you just add to it and then a month later you freak out and you clean that room for four hours. That would be, I feel, like the differentiator and I think is the difference between like a neurotypical brain and like an ADHD brain is that we all make a mess. We're all messy sometimes, we all forget sometimes. But can you do it when you think about it or are you naturally avoiding it and you cannot make yourself do it, no matter how much you know you need to do it?

Speaker 1: 55:11

Yeah, I wonder what the percentage is of people it's going up steadily.

Speaker 2: 55:16

I think and don't quote me because I'm not exactly sure but I think it's like 9% of people now and steadily climbing who have adhd. So it's only nine.

Speaker 1: 55:25

I would have guessed way more than that, honestly, because it's like yeah, yeah, I think it could have gone up.

Speaker 2: 55:30

It's probably in the tens now or, you know, even past that, but it is. It is crazy, it is. It's growing. I think it's a combination of being diagnosed. More especially, women are, um starting to see it in themselves as an adult, because it got missed for a lot of girls, because it presents really differently than like boys and how we think of adhd, um and kids.

Speaker 1: 55:50

It just, yeah, different for girls, kids that had adhd, like when I was in school, like you had to be off the hook to have adhd, literally like not able to chill in class and be cool, right, they're being crazy like rolling on the floor and stuff like literally, like that's what people are like yeah, that's like oh, they got adhd.

Speaker 2: 56:04

But like you, like they didn't look at girls who just like talk too much or something like having adhd, which is funny, and now that is kind of coming out. So I do think it's that people learning more about it, knowing more about it. This tiktok during covid probably helped with that, but then also I do think it's just becoming more um, like it's just happening more genetically and that could be a slew of so many things, but it is just genetic. So if your parent has it, it's really likely that you're going to have it, and if you have it, one of your parents probably has it, even if it's not diagnosed.

Speaker 2: 56:33

So yeah it is interesting.

Speaker 1: 56:35

Yeah, and I think it's just so cool to learn more about how your own brain works and how you process things, and just self study in general is huge, because why would we all be the same and why are we expecting others to be like us? And like it's interesting to know how you operate and can process things so that you can be better in relationships in your life, be better doing life like for yourself, like all of that stuff, without shame and guilt, that you're not like somebody else. It really doesn't make sense because who cares?

Speaker 2: 57:07

As long as you're respectful and cool, right, exactly, and it's like, yeah, we're all so different. That's the cool thing about it is that we're different. And then to like, yeah, taking that time to learn about yourself, not only can you be more successful, um, and more self-aware, but you can also meet people where they're at better because, like you understand, like you are not the same as me, and that's good, Like we're not going to be the same. And two, then you really find your people and the people who have done that work and are the same as you. You know like you're like, oh, you can feel really seen in those people. Once you understand yourself too, yeah, which is nice, you can see the beauty in everybody's differences.

Speaker 1: 57:37

Yeah, exactly, yeah, it is it is great.

Speaker 2: 57:40

I mean I was like reading a little bit of a book, but like neurodivergence just as a whole is on a rise and it's actually more common to have some sort of neurodivergence from autism to ADHD, you know OCD than like it is to be left handed.

Speaker 1: 58:06

So it's just, it's really so much more common than we think, and I think it's good that people are finally talking about it and just being more open about it, because it just feels good to be seen. Yeah, exactly, do you feel better knowing that, I guess, than not to know that Like, or was there any part of you that was like Ooh, now I have this, I'm going to like obsess over this and it's going to become like my whole personality.

Speaker 2: 58:18

You know what I mean. Like you know what you anything.

Speaker 1: 58:20

If you learn like your Zodiac sign, if you learn your like like enneagram number, you can start to really like tap into that. But then I think you can use it on the other side.

Speaker 2: 58:27

Right, it's fine yeah, no, it's so real. It's funny because I definitely went into the diagnosis just expecting to have validation and I did. I felt a lot of validation, like okay, this isn't just a character fall like this is you, like this is something in your brain that you cannot help. But I didn't expect to feel I had like a waves of emotions, like I felt sad for like the younger me who like didn't feel, who felt like there was something wrong with me. I felt frustrated that it took so long to get the diagnosis. Um, and then, yeah, I definitely made it my whole personality.

Speaker 1: 58:55

I think you kind of have to almost, though, because you have to embody it exactly.

Speaker 2: 58:58

You have to learn about it, yeah so I listen to podcasts about it and like it was cool, because I I was like oh my God, this person's talking about me you know, and so like it really helped it, because then too there's like you're kind of doubting it, like you're like is this assessment right?

Speaker 2: 59:11

Like are they sure? And so then you hear all these things and you're like, oh no, so it's almost also helping yourself accept it, like when you're like fully diving into it, because you're, oh my God, I do literally all of these things. This makes so much sense. But it was funny because you know a lot of my clients who are like I have a lot of clients who were diagnosed with ADHD as adults and they're the ones who, when they were talking about themselves, I was like, oh dang, like that sounds like me. So I asked one of them, I was like, how long did it take for it to stop being your entire personality?

Speaker 2: 59:40

And she was like, honestly, I would say I'll give it, like a year, like it was like you know, it was front and center for a while there, but it is because you're learning so much and that really is what it takes, so you have to learn it so that you can function with it and you can learn. You have to learn the complexity so you can beat them, you know, and that you can put those coping skills into place to help. Because now it's funny there are so many things that I just thought were like weird things. I did that I now, knowing that I've ADHD, are like, oh my god, it's been ADHD this whole time, so it's just funny. But now I know there's a reason and now I you know I'm not just gonna be able to just get over that overnight, but I know there's a reason and now I know there are systems I can put into place to help with it yeah, no, that's really awesome.

Speaker 1: 1:00:19

Yes, that is super cool, you, yes no, it feels good um, the only other thing that I wanted to touch on too briefly, because we talked about it during your, during my haircut last time, was about having lonnie and then all of like the body stuff that comes along with. That I think is huge and I wanted to know, because you're on this self-discovery mentally, emotionally and then also physically too.

Speaker 2: 1:00:42

Definitely, yeah, it's interesting because, um, we like I loved being pregnant, like I really enjoyed it. I loved watching my body change, like while he was growing in there, and I just felt like so beautiful and glowy, um. But then there's also the side of it. That's like you were going to the doctors more often and your body is a little bit under a microscope and you're really trying to do everything you can to like nourish your baby. So I did, while I love being pregnant and like really like like seeing my bump, I did also get like kind of weird about like what I ate and just making sure that I didn't gain a lot of weight, because I did walk into it as like a midsize person. And, of course, like you know, they weren't telling me this stuff to my face, but I'd see on my like paperwork later that they were like ranking me for, like you know, obesity type one and like putting me in like this high risk category, which would scare me, also make me feel kind of like a shame around that, um, and so I just like wanted to be careful and follow all their rules so they couldn't, like you know, blame me for anything or be too hard on me, um, but yeah, so I enjoyed like the process of being pregnant and like seeing my body change.

Speaker 2: 1:01:44

But then I ended up having a C-section you know which. Then you add a scar, um, and then, yeah, your, your body's changing after and it's like you've spent all this time with this baby in your belly. So of course, things have stretched and they've changed. But it's kind of hard to see at first, like it's hard to accept and like you want to go into it with this mindset of like look at what my body did, it's so awesome, like it's so cool. But there's also this part of us that's been so trained in where, like I don't have this perfect flat stomach anymore. I don't know if I ever will anymore. I, if I ever will again.

Speaker 1: 1:02:25

And so that was's a hard process. There is the reality of this. You might not have ever have that again. Right, it may never happen.

Speaker 2: 1:02:29

Yeah, like you might have to really let that one go right and, like you really have to do a lot of self-talk and just like start small and kind of. You have to meet yourself where you're at, which is challenging, but you do have to like give your body credit and you also have to give yourself the credit you would give someone else because, like you wouldn't look at like your sister who just had a baby and be like, oh my God, like your lower abs stick out now. Like you would be. Like you look beautiful, look at what you did, like that's amazing. But we don't do that to ourselves Like our inner critic's so tough. So I feel like we are really having to like self-work, to meet myself where I was at, appreciate my body because it was doing a lot and, like I didn't have your typical like people are. Like you breastfeed, it's going to burn off all that weight and that was not the truth for me. I actually lost a lot of weight right after having Lonnie. Like I went to my two-week post-op.

Speaker 2: 1:03:19

I was under my pre-pregnancy weight and then I went to my six week followup and I was like 20 pounds, almost 20 pounds over my, or like 15 pounds over my pre-pregnancy weight. So I gained a lot of weight. But some people's bodies hold onto weight and fat so that they can make milk, and so the positive to that is that I had great milk production. But the negative to that was that, yeah, I wasn't getting this, like you know, bounce back from breastfeeding that people talk about, which now, talking to moms, it's like not a lot of people's truth. Yeah, because to produce a lot of milk, you need to be having a lot of calories and you need to be having a lot of water, and you're also sitting a lot because you're nursing your baby. So you know it's not always going to be that, like you know, burning all of this fat all the time for you, like it's burning a lot of calories, but that doesn't necessarily mean you're going to be like snatched up and skinny. So that you know there was that. And then also, I definitely have some scar tissue from around where my C-section is and I have a small hernia too, which I have, I have.

Speaker 2: 1:04:19

I was born with a hernia. I've had two hernia repairs surgically, so my stomach muscles were already kind of to begin with, um, but then during pregnancy I definitely developed like diastasis recti, um, and then I'd have this hernia now too. So now I'm kind of on this journey to just like, you know, kind of stitch my stomach muscles back together Um, you know, and you work with that and just like but not do it in a way of like hating my body, but doing in a way of like I'm just trying to make myself feel better. I'm just trying to help my body function better, you know, and be stronger, but also just like, just really appreciate that it did a huge thing, like it birthed my son into the world, it carried me, it kept me alive, and that's like a huge thing. So I have to applaud myself for that.

Speaker 2: 1:05:00

So yeah, just trying to look at it in like a way that, like I love myself, I'm doing this to nourish my body and feel good, not so much as to change what I see in the mirror.

Speaker 1: 1:05:09

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Do you feel like it's hard to hold space for both at the same time, or do you feel like cause, was there ever a point where you were hyper focused on the whole situation or not really?

Speaker 2: 1:05:21

So I feel like yes and no. I think that I sometimes just didn't, like I went through a period where I just like didn't care what I looked like, which was good and bad, because then I, like wasn't feeling very good Cause I wasn't pouring into myself at all, and I think that maybe that was just like a little bit of a survival instinct, so I didn't give that a lot of time. Yeah, like I don't have time to care about that right now.

Speaker 2: 1:05:41

I don't have the energy for that Right, so then I started kind of pouring back into myself, which did lend to like more time to be like focused on what my body looked like. And yeah, it is really hard to hold space for both of those things. Because it's okay to feel like my body's not what it looked like before, like it's okay to have feelings about that that aren't great, like that is perfectly valid. So you have to remind yourself of that too Like it's okay to feel this way.

Speaker 1: 1:06:02

Yeah, exactly Cause I think so many times. We're like hurry up and feel like you like it and I don't like it.

Speaker 2: 1:06:11

So stop Right and I don't yeah, I don't have to like it, like so, and it's like we are so mean to ourselves, and that's it's like. It's okay to have like negative feelings about it too, but you can't let that like down. They're going to come out Like so. You have to have the balance of like I'm feeling this way, but my body did a really big thing and I wouldn't treat anyone else like this, and so you have to just give yourself that grace, um, and give yourself grace for having the feelings you're having, but not let them swallow you up.

Speaker 1: 1:06:44

Yeah, which is like anything really. Yeah, like that logic of what we're doing with our body and being like I actually don't like this right now. It's the same thing as being like you know, yeah, that person from my past hurt me and it still makes me angry, right, but at some point you got to let that go Exactly and in your own time, however you want, but we can't be like living our life with those things attached to us because it's not serving you yeah like, as long as you're healthy, you're making good choices, yeah, you're taking care of your body.

Speaker 2: 1:07:10

Yeah, and if it's not happening, it might just be like what your body is supposed to look like and that's okay. And like you really do have to like find that ability to be like. It's okay for it to look like this. I do think it's nice because, like right now on social media, we're seeing people being like all angles of your body are okay and I think that's huge Like, because I do think social media gives us like such an unrealistic expectation of what things should look like. So it is nice that we have people showing like, yeah, I look like this when I'm like have my stomach sucked in, but then I let it go and I look like this from the side, and so I think that's huge because I'll like do that in the mirror. I'm like, ooh, look at me looking snatched from the front, and then I turn to the side and I see like my stomach, and so sometimes, like before, I would be like I'm going to change, but like today, like I just look at myself and we're like this is my stomach.

Speaker 2: 1:07:52

That's what it looks like, there's what it is. It their day to like really focus on what's going on in your body and like make fun of you for it or like talk bad about you. Like they probably just have something going on with themselves that they're just like putting out into the world in a negative way and so that they're just trying to like distract by it by like talking about other people. So try not to even take stake in those people's opinion because, like what, what does it matter and what good is it doing for you to like talk bad about other people?

Speaker 2: 1:08:27

So you know, just try to think about that, like I'm looking in the mirror like worried about people are going to be like, oh God, like look at her stomach, like who cares? I had a kid, I have a stomach. Like, whatever I'm comfortable.

Speaker 1: 1:08:45

So I just think, trying to anybody else like that too? Yeah, exactly, yes, well, thanks, cameron, thanks for being here so awesome. Yes, it was a lot of fun.

Speaker 2: 1:08:50

Yeah, I knew it would be. Yeah, what a great time.

Speaker 1: 1:08:53

So anybody listening, if you would like your um the best haircut in town and just you know such a great hairstylist in general, um, you can find her. What's your handle?

Speaker 2: 1:09:05

oh, my hair page is at hair by cam lang laing underscore um, and then my personal is cp, underscore lang laing on instagram yeah, if you guys want to stalk yeah, my, I'm never posting, ever, it doesn't matter we're trying to get better it's gonna be great. You can see my cute little blonde boy.

Speaker 1: 1:09:25

Yes, exactly all right. Well, thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you.