Know Ya Flow
Women in flow, share what they know. Hear women's stories of how they've grown, what they know, and how they are living in flow.
Know Ya Flow
Finding Strength Through Holistic Healing - Cindia's Journey With Terminal Cancer
Can holistic practices truly transform the way we navigate terminal illnesses? This episode of Know Ya Flow brings an inspiring story that will challenge your perspective on healthcare. We welcome the beloved Cindia, a member of our yoga community whose journey from step aerobics and marathon running to teaching yoga at Shine is a testament to the power of intuitive practices.
Cindia shares her transition into yoga and how it has been a guiding light in her life.
Journey with us through Cindia's profound insights as she opens up about her 42-year marriage that began in high school with her now husband Bill, the shock of a terminal pancreatic cancer diagnosis, and the emotional rollercoaster that followed.
Discover how energy healing and holistic medicine have complemented her traditional medical treatments, alongside personal anecdotes of resilience, including dealing with delays in Western medical diagnoses and the importance of emotional health. Cindia's narrative is not just about battling illness but about finding strength in solitude, love, and the enduring connections we forge.
We'll also explore the value of maintaining high energy vibrations and the broader implications of integrating holistic practices in conventional healthcare. Hear about the importance of affirmations, the complexities of navigating terminal illness, and the legacy of strength and positivity Cindia leaves for those around her.
This is her testament to that people she loves.
This episode is a moving tribute to the grace and wisdom Cindia embodies, offering listeners a heartfelt narrative that underscores the significance of a positive mindset and holistic approaches during life's most challenging moments. Tune in to feel inspired and uplifted by Cindia's incredible journey.
Welcome to Know your Flow podcast, where women in flow share what they know. I'm your host, lauren Barton. Join me as we talk to women and hear their stories on what they know, how they've grown and living in flow. Hello, I wanted to do a little intro for this episode because it is really, really special and, yeah, I just wanted to give a little context and a little bit of a I don't know a little dedication, shout out all that kind of stuff. So the episode today is with Cyndia Cyndia.
Speaker 1:I know Cyndia from yoga. I know her because we've done the yamas and the niyamas study together. She was in a group that I was in for that I remember. You know she was in front of me in yoga class a lot. She taught yoga at Shine and her presence has always been that of a wise woman, if you will, is with a lot of grace and intention. There is no one that would meet Cindy and not love her. She is such a good person through and through. She is so kind, she is so loving and, again, she's so wise. She has so much wisdom Anytime that she would speak in our Yamas and Niyamas training not training, but our little workshop, our group that we had kind of a book club that we had. I know that me and all the other people would just kind of stop and really listen and take it in, because, again, she chooses what she says with a lot of intention and with clarity and, yeah, she just is the best. She is kind of like a spiritual teacher. She is older than a lot of us, which that comes, you know, an elder, that comes with wisdom and that comes with respect.
Speaker 1:And so, yeah, I I knew that Cyndia was sick I'd heard kind of through the grapevine but I didn't know how much until we had a workshop at Shine and she joined us and she read this beautiful story, or I don't even know how you would really describe it, but she read to us about her life and how she had just recently found out that, how the energy healing has been really helping her to get better, to manage, to be in peace in the midst of what's going on, and so I wanted that story, I wanted her wisdom to reach beyond just the yoga studio that day. It impacted me and everyone else around me very, very deeply, as you can imagine. So I'm really grateful that she's on the podcast today. I'm really grateful for her time. I'm really grateful for her wisdom. I'm grateful that she trusted me to put this out here.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, enjoyed this episode with Cyndia. It's really special, like I said, and her outlook is just amazing and I'm grateful that I've gotten to know her. I've been a part of her life just in this. You know small capacity in the yoga studio and in those kind of circles, so enjoy today's episode. All right, today we have a special guest. We're here with Cyndia. Hi, cyndia, hi, it's so good to be here with you. So let's just maybe we'll just jump right in with how I know you, which is through yoga.
Speaker 2:And so how did you get into yoga? So I began practicing yoga probably, I don't know, 20 to 30 years ago. Wow, and how old are you now? 67. Awesome and I took yoga at a little place with a single instructor. It was just a group of women that met once a week, very gentle kind of yoga, but we did hot stone at the end for Shavasana, which was like whoa, this is great.
Speaker 1:So what was a hot stone Like? Would you put it like on your on your backs and stuff Like all?
Speaker 2:the stones? Yeah, so we would have maybe three to five stones. You could really place them wherever you wanted. That was nice. Yeah, very relaxing.
Speaker 1:So you started there and then you have a daughter, right, I do. How old was she at that point? Was she out of the house or in high school?
Speaker 2:I think she was in school at that point. Okay, cool yeah probably middle school maybe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so what drew you to yoga?
Speaker 2:You know, I can't really remember what drew me to that initial yoga class. I remember doing it with a friend and just immediately really enjoying the feeling that I got from doing yoga. You know, one of the things that I have found over the years is it's very surprising how intuitive yoga is and how you experience something and then later, in a workshop or a class, you learn that, hey, that's what's really supposed to happen, and it's like, oh yeah, I've experienced that, you know. So I love the intuitiveness and the naturalness of yoga Because did you do very much like exercise before that?
Speaker 1:Like, were you into going to the gym or were you just more like a walking girly or or were you just more of like a walking girly or yeah?
Speaker 2:so I actually did a lot of exercise. I belong to a gym and so I did a lot of stationary biking and weights and machines, that you know that whole realm of stuff. And then I got into doing step aerobics. That was popular back then and I even taught step aerobics for a while. And then I went through a phase where I really enjoyed running and I actually ran a marathon, just one One and done.
Speaker 1:Yeah, one and done Exactly.
Speaker 2:So, yes, I've been fairly athletic most of my life, yeah.
Speaker 1:Cool, cool. So you were practicing yoga for a bit, and then what made you do the teacher training? Because that's how I know you as being a teacher at Shine and with all the Shine things. So yeah, how did that go?
Speaker 2:So eventually, the class that I was taking, the instructor moved away, class that I was taking, the instructor moved away, and so it sort of disbanded.
Speaker 2:And I had been spending a lot of time caring for my aging mother and when she passed away, you know, I was like a little bit lost as to what the next direction should be. But I knew Caroline from we go to the same church and so I mentioned to Caroline that I would like to take yoga and would her studio be right for me, that sort of thing, and she said, oh yes, so I started taking yoga at Shine and that's when things really started to begin to click. And after practicing with Caroline for a couple of years, the yoga teacher training came up. I was nearing retirement from my profession and so it was, like you know, I'd really like to take that class just to get more knowledge for myself, never really thinking I was going to teach, but, as we all know, the road is very curvy. And so, yeah, I think I was in either the second or third class and it was hard, it was really hard, but I, you know, obviously I loved it and learned a great deal.
Speaker 1:And how old were you when you did that?
Speaker 2:I guess I was. I'm going to guess around 60, maybe I do recall I think every, not everyone, but I think a lot of people go into that class feeling insecure in some area of their life because you just can't know it all. And I remember thinking I'm going to be the oldest one and that was sort of like. But you know what I really wanted to do it and I learned a lot, I think by doing it at that advanced age that you really do need to be kind to your body and that's not always easy to do during that intense training.
Speaker 1:And that's not always easy to do. During that intense training, have you always been the type of person to like learn new things, try new things, because I mean going into that at 60, I feel like a lot of people are like, eh, whatever, I'm too old or whatever, you know, I'm not going to do it, like so do you feel like you've always been the type of person that you like to try new things and learn new stuff?
Speaker 2:Yes, I am definitely a lifelong learner. I love to read. I am definitely a lifelong learner. I love to read. I love to take classes.
Speaker 1:Do you feel nervous before those things? Because, would you say that you're more of an introvert or an extrovert?
Speaker 2:So I think my personality is more introverted. However, because of my latest experiences, which I know we're going to get to, I've really come into feeling like I know the authentic me and I'm not afraid to show it. I do try to do it in safe ways, because not everyone is ready to hear what I have to say.
Speaker 1:Yeah, true, that's true. Yeah, hear what I have to say. Yeah, true, that's true, yeah, so, yeah.
Speaker 2:So in trying those new things before this experience, did you feel very like nervous or whatever, or not, really Not really, you know, sometimes I would feel a little intimidated about speaking up in class, like, oh, I'm not going to have the right words, I know what I want to say. But on the other hand, I'm a lifelong educator and so, you know, I should be articulate, I should be able to do it. So it's just getting over that little nervous hump and then I'm usually fine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I've been in class with you and you've spoken up and it's always wise words and very you can tell that you think before you speak and it's always like well, it's always a hit whatever you say Especially. I just remember the Yamas and the Niyamas like classes specifically and being like yeah, cindy, yeah, nice yeah.
Speaker 2:I enjoyed that class so much as well, and I think one of the things that I really enjoy is just listening and learning from others, and so I don't always have that urge or that pressing need to participate myself. But you know, after listening to others, you know occasionally I'll get inspired and feel like maybe I want to share this idea and see what people think about it.
Speaker 1:And for the listeners. You said you were a lifelong educator, so could you tell us a little bit about that?
Speaker 2:Oh sure, I was a math educator. I began my teaching career at the high school level and taught about six years at high school level, and then an opportunity came up that I could teach at Shenandoah University, and so I all along as I said, I have a love of learning. I had pursued and earned a master's degree, and then I pursued and earned a doctorate degree, and so I taught at Shenandoah all levels of math as well as math education, working with either pre-service or in-service teachers. Eventually, I did some administrative things, I chaired our department and then, when I left Shenandoah, I was the associate dean for the College of Arts and Sciences, primarily helping faculty, and so that was a really fun and interesting position to end my career. You know, at that spot, when you retired. When did you retire? I retired in the fall of 2019.
Speaker 1:Okay, so about four years ago, just about yeah, Were you ready to retire?
Speaker 2:or I was. I typically don't do things on the spur of the moment and so I had really thought through. You know that I wanted to retire because I like to have everything finished and complete, so to speak. And it was shortly before I retired that I did do the yoga teacher training, because I knew that that was one of the things I wanted to pursue after retirement. In fact, I'll tell you an interesting story about yoga and my job.
Speaker 2:When I met with the dean for my interview for that job you know, typically that's when you have the discussion about pay expectations etc I did not say one word about pay, but I said you know, I think I know why you and the faculty are interested in having me in this position, and that is that I can be calm in tough situations and help people come together that necessarily aren't getting along.
Speaker 2:I said but in order for me to do that, I'm going to need to have Tuesday and Thursday warnings off. And I said because that's when I practice yoga, that's when I nurture myself. I said because that's when I practice yoga, that's when I nurture myself, and if you want me to nurture others, I've got to be able to do that. And he was like well, of course. So I had this you know schedule where every Tuesday, thursday morning I didn't go to work. In fact, on my computer it says out of the office, and I love when that pops up still out of the office, and I'm like oh yeah, I'm at yoga now yeah, and you were always there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, tuesdays and Thursdays. Yeah, oh, that's awesome, because it is true. It's like what do you want? The, the time or the money, but, yeah, being able to do your job and the way that you know they wanted you for that reason was because of yoga and the calm that you got from that, which is so cool. How did you enjoy teaching yoga versus teaching what you had taught forever, or did you feel like it was kind of the same, just different?
Speaker 2:It was somewhat the same but also very different. I was very confident in my teaching ability of math. I had done it for a long time. I had studied different ways to help learners, different ways to teach the material. One of the neat things about my career is I have studied how people learn math from like preschool all the way through adulthood and so I sort of see that the development of everything. So that really helps me be a more creative kind of math teacher. With the yoga you know it's. It's just very different. In the beginning especially, I was like super scripted and you know, if I got off script it was like, oh no, what am I going to do? I was very rigid.
Speaker 2:I guess would be the right word, and so it took me a while to sort of loosen up and, you know, become the kind of teacher that emphasized the things of yoga that I think are most important.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely I mean, because I guess with math it's kind of this is one way versus, you know, with yoga, you know a little bit more fluid. So what is, yeah? So what have you been up to lately? What has been going on?
Speaker 2:Well, lately my life has taken a very interesting turn. After being healthy for most of my life with very few problems, I was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. It took a long time to get diagnosed. One of the reasons was that I am a typical, typically healthy person and so, for the most part, when you look at me, you would say, oh, that person has what is known as a terminal illness.
Speaker 1:What type of symptoms were you having and how long was that going on? For Like, if you know you want to share.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So it's interesting, I didn't really have symptoms. I had gone in for an annual checkup and my cholesterol was a little high and had been, and so, with all the stuff that I do, my physician thought that perhaps it was related to heredity and not just lifestyle diet. So before she was thinking about putting me on a statin drug and we just decided, well, before you go on that, let's go have a scan of your heart just to see if there's like calcifications or buildups or anything. So when I went in for that scan, my heart was just fine, but unfortunately, when the radiologist was looking at the scan, pieces of the lungs or part of the lungs show on that type of scan and there were these nodules there, and so that was really the first you know time that I knew, and that was in February of 2023.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so quite a while ago you were just like living your life, right Like you were just like living life, nothing going on, okay.
Speaker 2:Right, and, and you know how, the first thing we do well, a lot of us, I don't do it anymore, but you know Google, okay, what does this mean? And I learned that lung nodules were not, you know, a big deal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I did the same thing with my dad recently. He had lung nodules and yeah, googling, what are they?
Speaker 2:you know, know, yeah yeah, and it's not a big deal usually yeah, it's right.
Speaker 2:Right now we're in almost may 2024, so that was february 2023 for a timeline so basically, the the scenario and it might be the same with your dad is, once they know they're there, you basically watch and wait. So you know I don't know how your dad's is but like every three months, six months, whatever, you get a scan. When I went for the scan, I again was expecting no change. I wasn't expecting anything. And, lo and behold, they had increased a little bit in frequency and size, nothing alarming. But that's when I knew, you know, this could be something serious.
Speaker 2:So from there I began to meet with an oncologist and was told that typically, when you have these nodules, if they're cancerous, typically when you have these nodules if they're cancerous, then you're probably going to have cancer elsewhere in the body, that it has spread to the lungs. Yeah, and so again I was just like, okay, you know, and the doctors, you know they would look at me and just say you know, you don't have any symptoms, you're so healthy, you know, whatever. So during the summer of 2023, that's when we began doing more invasive tests. So a lung, a needle biopsy of one of the nodules in the lung. That gave some information, but not enough. Eventually, in July, I had a PET scan and an MRI and that's when the mass was found on the pancreas, and so you know when you're thinking about cancers. Probably pancreatic cancer would probably fall right below brain cancer on terms of cure.
Speaker 1:So how did that day feel? Do you remember the day?
Speaker 2:Do you remember like oh yeah, so we had these tests done in Charlottesville, and so I remember I think we had had the test done on a Thursday and the next morning I got a call. I was home alone and it was a PA and she said your PET scan shows a fairly large mass on your pancreas. And I was just stunned, you know, I didn't really know what to say. You know you try to, you know like oh wow, exactly.
Speaker 2:And so when I talked to that PA, she said what we would like for you to do next is to come in for an MRI so that they can focus on the pancreas and really get some more detail. And so of course I said yes, and we actually did that the very next day. But you know, in the meantime I really felt hopeless and I think I remember, you know, writing in my diary that you know, after looking up pancreatic cancer, I felt like, well, I'm either going to have some sort of treatment and die or I'm just going to die. You know it's one or the other, and so you know that was very difficult to process. I didn't get angry, I didn't say you know why me, or anything like that. I'm a very spiritual person and I know that. You know, sometimes bad things happen to the best of people and it was just my turn to have a really bad thing.
Speaker 1:Because your whole life has been pretty cool.
Speaker 2:It has. I mean, I've had trauma along the way, but you know nothing that I would that. I wasn't able to overcome and learn something from.
Speaker 1:And you had mentioned that you were taking care of your mom and all of that stuff. So did any of that sort of stuff come up? I guess your whole life was flashing probably before you and how did you want to finish your next couple of months and did you think about losing your mom and all that kind of stuff, or not really and like how death looked then?
Speaker 2:I didn't think a whole lot about it. I I'm really not afraid of death. I do see that as just a you know, natural transition from one form of life to another. I don't know if I thought about it then, but I was thinking about just what would it be like right before you know would it be, and I still think about that sometimes. You know what's it going to be like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Like is it going to be painful or right.
Speaker 2:And of course I thought about, you know, my husband, my daughter, you know, my husband and I were sort of at the fun retirement age and you know, oh, this is now changed overnight. At least that's what I thought.
Speaker 1:Did you call your daughter right away? Or how does it fit to hang up the phone Then? What does that look like after the next steps, after that? Or how does it fit to hang?
Speaker 2:up the phone. Then what does that look like after the next steps, after that? Yes, I think people really process things differently. For me, actually being alone was probably the best, because that gave me a little bit of time to process and prepare. And I'm typically like that I'll take in the information and then I just need to sort of reflect on it, experience it a little bit, and then I'm able to, you know, share it with my husband, and typically he well, always he's the first person and then, you know, we discuss and then we bring our daughter, other people into it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how long have you guys been married?
Speaker 2:Bill and I have been married for 42 years, soon to be 43. Yeah, a long time, yeah, really long time, two-thirds of our lives. Yeah.
Speaker 1:How did you?
Speaker 2:guys meet each other. We met when we were seniors in high school. Ohthirds of our lives, yeah. How did you guys meet each other? We met when we were seniors in high school.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh yeah Wow.
Speaker 2:And we started dating. We did the whole senior prom, all that. Bill was a runner in high school, a very good runner, and so he went to first Allegheny Community College in Pittsburgh and then Clemson University on running scholarships. Wow, that's awesome so we were really a part. But so we were doing the long distance dating, which was probably good because you know at that age you're still growing and figuring out who you are. So we dated for six years before we got married. It was not a quick courtship.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is nice though, because, yeah, you got to establish your own lives and routines and skills and sort of then come together with them established. That's really cool. And then where did you guys? So you were 25 when you were married.
Speaker 2:Yeah, about that age yeah.
Speaker 1:And then, where did you guys live?
Speaker 2:I mean, we lived in Winchester, okay.
Speaker 1:And that's where we've lived the whole time. Wow, that's nice. So, yeah, raised your daughter here. You've been here chilling, yeah. So I'm sure to get that news too. You guys are in your fun retirement and I'm sure that your mind does go to man Bill's going to. He's going to be upset. What is he going to do without me?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Like you guys have been together for so long Because you, you're like I'm ready to roll, I did everything I need to do, but just being sad for those like you know leaving behind really, so it sounds very gloomy.
Speaker 2:Yes, which is.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's a part of it.
Speaker 2:It is part of it, and some days it is very gloomy, yeah, somewhere along the process, because western medicine is not always as speedy as it needs to be. It's also doesn't always have answers, which a lot of us grow up to expect. That so kind of learning that western medicine has its quirks was good to learn.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it does have its quirks and I think that people we can if does have its quirks and I think that people we can, if you want to touch on that just for a second. In general, I mean, whether it's the insurance situation, you know, and like getting the appointments, and then also like, yeah, we grow up thinking to go to another person for whatever we need. Hey, this hurts me, so let me go to somebody else and they're going to tell me what to do about it for myself, when really, like, we have a lot of the answers that we need within us. But yeah, I think it is like Western medicine having to go from being a pretty healthy person to then now you're supposed to rely almost entirely on these random doctors and people that are specialized in things, when they're just humans too, you know.
Speaker 2:Yes, you know, one of my dreams would be that Western medicine and holistic medicine would work a little closer together, because I think that would be very powerful in terms of healing. So, as I said, I had these two tests in July of 23. I didn't get the official diagnosis until the beginning of September of 23. So that is six to eight weeks of just waiting and worrying. So the official diagnosis is not made until you have had a biopsy that shows you have cancer in the pancreas. So you know that was not good, all those extended waits. But, as you may know, things do happen a lot of times for a reason. And during that waiting is when my general physician suggested that I contact Sarah Lascano, who is an energy medicine practitioner an energy medicine practitioner and so I did that in July and worked with her for six weeks prior to getting the official diagnosis. So I went every week and you know it was just amazing, everything that I learned and experienced and have continued to learn and experience through energy medicine.
Speaker 1:Had you ever done it before? Had you ever done like Reiki or any of that really before?
Speaker 2:So I have participated in some Reiki events. I've never gotten Reiki training, but yeah, you know the Reiki circles and just some things like that. And then a mutual friend, kate Powell. She is an energy medicine practitioner and so I knew Kate first as a yoga instructor, but as she got involved in energy, it was very interesting to learn about it from her.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you had heard about it.
Speaker 2:So when your doctor recommended it, then you went to see her. So what were the sessions? Like practitioner has their own gifts and ways about doing things, and so for Sarah, she has really integrated her knowledge of medicine, anatomy, how disease works. She has really integrated that into her practice. So each session is very different.
Speaker 2:The general notion, in case you're not familiar with energy healing, is that we have energy that travels through our body good energy, bad energy, healthy energy but sometimes it gets stuck and that's not necessarily a good thing. And so the idea is that, with the help of a practitioner, you can figure out where those blockages are and what are they caused by? You know, is it emotional, is it physical, is it spiritual? Is it an experience that you had when you were a child that you were unable to process? And so, as these blockages build up, that's what can cause you to be ill. In my case, while we might never know for sure, I had a very traumatic experience during the whole COVID lockdown. I got very sick and I scared myself to death that I had COVID and I went and I had various tests and whatever, but basically that was one of the blockages that I've had to deal with that, there might not be a cure for something. You might end up in the hospital on a ventilator.
Speaker 1:Where do you think that fear came from? Because if you were like, I'm not really afraid to die, and all those like, where do you think it came from?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I think that I'm not sure how this is possible, but somehow along the way I went to being a very confident, in control, empowered person to just the opposite, where I had difficulty making decisions. I was not confident in my abilities. Sometimes I even felt like I had imposter syndrome, because that had been my personality. And all of a sudden, because that had been my personality, and all of a sudden I wasn't so sure anymore. But you know, back to the sessions with Sarah. You know she. We usually have a discussion. You can either sit for your sessions or, if you want to lie on an examination table, you can. I usually tend to lie on the table. Her particular method is to lightly touch your forearm or your wrist and she basically channels with her higher power, kind of sets aside her own intellect and she channels into you and basically reads your energy, and so the session really evolves based on what you're feeling, but also what she is sensing that you need that particular day.
Speaker 1:So how did it? How did it end up unfolding in the six weeks?
Speaker 2:together. The first thing that really happened was here. I had been spending all this time preparing for the worst and in our initial telephone call, when I was setting up the appointment, she listened to what I wanted and basically I said I just wanted to feel balanced. I said, because I'm all over the place, I just can't focus. I just need some balance. And so she listened and she was quiet for a moment and she said well, have you ever thought about getting? Well, and then I was really quiet for a moment because I was like what? And so, like I'm sorry, I heard what I was saying here.
Speaker 2:I sort of managed to, you know, say well, yes, I would love to be well, and so right then I knew that this was not. You know something?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it wasn't going to be what I had been doing.
Speaker 2:So over those six weeks she really helped me think about why I might have developed the cancer. She assured me that cancer is like a lot of other diseases, that even though though Western medicine refuses to even think about cure, there are people that have had cancer that do not have it anymore. And in some cases people go with these serious cancers. They can go into what is known as radical remission, where you know they can't really explain it, you know we can hypothesize about it, but the cancer actually goes away. So she really helped me think through a lot of things to get my confidence, and even before I went to her I really knew that Western medicine couldn't help me. And so during that six weeks she helped me build up my confidence so that when I went back to the doctor I was really able to have conversation with him and be myself and speak my, my opinions, my truth, even if it was different from his opinions and truth, yeah.
Speaker 1:So how did that go then when you went back in September?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it actually went quite well. My oncologist at UVA is not a closed-minded doctor, but I will say his expertise is Western medicine. So while he, you know, listened to the things that I was doing, the habits that I was developing to try to cure my cancer, he, of course, you know, recommended the traditional treatment. Yes, and so basically, I was offered two treatments, both involving chemotherapy. Once your cancer has metastasized to another part of your body, surgery is typically not an option, and it wasn't for me, and so these two chemotherapy treatments that I had to choose from, I think you would have the chemotherapy every other week. You would probably feel bad for a few days or more. They would be monitoring you and they would either they were a combination of medicines. They might, you know, play with that combination over time you might get a break from the chemotherapy, but really it was going to be something that you would do forever until it didn't work and you died so basically, it's just prolonging your life in theory.
Speaker 1:It is Okay so it's prolonging your life, but your quality of life would have been.
Speaker 2:Very compromised, because not only does chemotherapy attack your disease cells, it's also attacking healthy cells, and so you know it's pretty counterintuitive to do that, at least to me. And so you know, prior to even going to the appointment, talking with my family, it was like, well, you know, let's figure this out. You know, every let's say we'll be positive. You know, every other week you got three days that you're going to be sick and not really want to do anything. So that's, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, hopefully, right, yeah 11 days, three days anyway.
Speaker 2:We figured it out and it was just like you know, I don't know because days, I guess, out of a month would you be sick. Well, if it's four weeks, you would say 12 days right, yeah. Out of a month.
Speaker 1:Wow, so like half the month you would feel bad yeah.
Speaker 2:And of course everyone reacts to chemotherapy differently, but right, yeah, therapy differently, um, but yeah, and so, uh, the doctor also knew that, um, I was a mathematician and I had told him, uh, on a previous visit that I would really like to know the statistics behind the various treatments. So he kept it kind of simple, but which was fine. He said if you do not have treatment and this is early September 2023, your median life expectancy is two months. If you do the treatment, you can extend your life to the median to 10 to 12 months. So, you know, you're thinking in your head, two months of really great life versus this 10 to 12 months of compromise. And also, you need to remember at this point, I, not, I don't have any symptoms. I feel, I feel fine oh yeah, I feel.
Speaker 1:Fine, right, you feel, you know I'm still you know, yeah, you're just you.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm still experiencing a lot of stress and that sort of thing. Yeah, worry and anxiety how I'm learning how to, you know, control my emotions, how to experience them and then let them go. You know the importance of trying to increase my energy vibrations so that I'm experiencing, you know, happiness, joy, love, staying away from negative things, people, et cetera.
Speaker 1:I mean that's huge, just like that.
Speaker 2:in general, is huge, yeah, and uh, you know, in addition, I'm doing the energy medicine. I'm uh doing some other breathing, you know, pranayama to try to clear my lungs. Uh, practicing yoga when I can, rebounding, which some people don't know about that. But your lymph system, you know it collects all the toxins and waste in your body. It's not like it has a pump where it just you know, like your lungs or something. So if you move repetitively every hour or so, you can cause those toxins to move through the lymph or the lymph to move through the system. And so, rebounding, jumping gently on a little trampoline does that and it's also really fun, fun. So, uh, you know that. And just, I don't know just different things uh, making sure I was outside, taking walks, meditating, um, you know, just I was doing a ton of things like you're on, it's like you've changed so that now your life is just one big retreat exactly like don't bother me.
Speaker 1:I'm on retreat.
Speaker 2:This is my treatment yeah, there you go and I have had to be. Um, you know, try to use my intuition and if I'm thinking about going to an event or having visiting with a particular person, even if it's just a phone call, I tend to ask myself is this going to help or is it going to hurt? Because people have different personalities and, you know, talking to someone who is a lot of doom and gloom, you're going to sort of absorb that or it's going to trigger you and if you're ready for that it's okay, because that triggering can help heal you too. But you know, I was very careful about even like the books I read or television programs I choose to watch. You know I used to love those you know like crime. I don't watch any of that anymore. I just, you know I used to love those you know like crime. I don't watch any of that anymore. I just you know I need to stay positive.
Speaker 1:So in September he said that and you were like I'm good, I'm not going to do this.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So he gave us that information and you know, I just looked at him straight in the eye and I said you know, I really appreciate, you know all this information, but I don't think I'm going to be that statistic and he's, and so I am not ready to do any kind of chemotherapy at this time. And he looked at me and he said I'm not surprised. He said, knowing what I know about you, I'm not surprised. And he said you know you are the healthiest looking pancreatic cancer patient I have ever treated. And in fact at that particular appointment he said you've gained weight. He said so I'm not surprised.
Speaker 2:And so we still keep in touch. I'm kind of working through my primary care physician, but we're in touch and he knows what's going on. And unfortunately I had to go back to UVA for a complication a few months ago complication a few months ago and of course I met with the doctor and he still said you know, if you want chemotherapy it's still a viable option for you. He said, but you know this was in February. So he said obviously you know your tumor has grown much, much slower than would have, you know, I would have predicted, and you still look healthy.
Speaker 1:So where are you today? So today, now we're like in April. So look at you beating the odds, yes, but yeah, how's life going now?
Speaker 2:So life is going differently than I expected.
Speaker 2:You know, I thought or I have been thinking all along and I still think this that one of the my purposes for continuing to live with this disease is that I think I have something to share with people and I want to share that light and hope and what positivity can mean to your life, just that you don't necessarily have to accept somebody's diagnosis and prognosis that, yes, I have a very serious disease, but I also have some power to affect how that disease progresses.
Speaker 2:I might, with the help of others God, my spiritual team, my earthly team I may lick this disease. I may live with it for five years, I may live with it for another two weeks. I don't know the outcome. That's not something that I can focus on. So I kind of have to surrender that piece, which is super hard. But you know, I just feel like there's a lot of people that get this diagnosis and give up, and I would like to just say to those people maybe you don't need to give up, maybe that's not the right path for you, and I would like for people associated with Western medicine to be able to look at me and say, wow, what a difference a positive mindset can have with a very scary disease and maybe I could incorporate some of that with my patients and not just depend on what I know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because why do you think it is that people shut it down so much and so quickly?
Speaker 2:I think it's a couple of things. I think that many of us have been raised since we were children, to trust what the doctor, what the medical profession says, and we, just as you said earlier in this interview, we assume that whatever the problem is, that it can be addressed with a pill or a treatment or a surgery, and a lot of times it can. But there are times when Western medicine has not determined the answers or the cure yet, and so in those cases I think it's especially important that you know people are honest. But, as I say, you know we were kind of trained and so well, if the doctor says I need to do this chemotherapy, that's what I'm going to do, and so I think that's part of it. Just, you know the way we've been, our culture, how we've been raised, and I think it's also hard for some people if you don't have spirituality, if you don't have a sense that there's something much bigger than you. I think that plays a role as well, and I should mention that. You know I am not like anti-Western medicine.
Speaker 1:I don't think you're giving that off at all.
Speaker 2:No, I mean, if I had, you know, a different type of cancer where chemotherapy was somewhat more successful, I would jump on it in a heartbeat. Still do all the holistic medicine and know that that was would just help me be more successful.
Speaker 1:Well and I mean that's what you said from the very beginning that you know you wish that Western medicine and holistic things could kind of like come together and that we would have a lot more success in people's overall well-being, which is, you know, really the goal for everyone for sure.
Speaker 2:And I think many people in the medical profession actually I think this is true in a lot of professions is you know, we have so much knowledge in our world now that it's really impossible for someone to know it all. So when we look at the medical profession, we see it very fragmented. We see it very fragmented. So, for example, when I was scared that I had COVID, it was recommended that I go have a stress test. So I went to the treatment center and I had a stress test and they measured it and they came out and said you're just fine, you passed the test, that's not the problem. But they were unable to go further than that and say, however, it could be this. So this is the next place you might want to try. They're just so fragmented that they can answer to their specific niche and then you're kind of left in the dark again and a lot of doctors, I don't think, appreciate the value of holistic medicine.
Speaker 2:I'll just give you a simple example. A couple of people were helping with at an oncology center developing some holistic practices that the patients could do, and you know teaching them to the patients, the nurses, you know the doctors. So when the pilot was over, you know, everyone came together and the doctors agreed that. You know this is making a good impact. We'd like to continue this. Could you? Could you just donate your time? And so it's like they do not recognize the value, the training, like that it could be equal to like that the two could come together and be equal.
Speaker 1:They always have to kind not always, but they seem to sometimes lesser. Make it a lesser, like a cute, cute little.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, that could be nice, you know kind of like oh, you know we're going to, I don't know, the hair makeup thing to make you feel better and all that does.
Speaker 1:This is actually like a practice that you could put into your life and like use and have your own. You could have your own wisdom and practices and not be reliant on a doctor.
Speaker 2:And all these people, whether you're an energy practitioner or you know the hair person or whatever, you're a professional and so you should be paid and compensated for what you are doing. And so that program ended up, you know, just kind of floundering and and not coming to fruition because you know the the two sides just couldn't see the value.
Speaker 1:Have affirmations been huge in your journey?
Speaker 2:Affirmations are have been very huge in my journey. Uh, in fact, uh, that was one of the things that happened in my very first session with Sarah was she gave me an affirmation and she said you know, put this on your mirror, put it somewhere where you can see it and then live it. And you know, because an affirmation isn't necessarily something that has already come to fruition, but it is a statement that you're making as if it has come to fruition and by embracing it in that way. Many times it does. And so my affirmations have changed week to week. Some of them stay the same. I am guided, supported, protected. Led is always in the mix. I've done a lot of affirmations on. You know, I trust my body, I trust my higher power. You know, my body is getting stronger and healthier.
Speaker 2:Right now, my affirmations are kind of focusing on body acceptance because, as you know, I do love to practice yoga, all of it. But you know, asana practice is wonderful, gentle flow, things like that make me feel so awesome. But unfortunately, because I've had to have a few little surgeries here and there, I haven't been able to practice as I would like. And so, you know, coming to terms with you know, okay, you just need to treat your body with compassion and know that it's not your body's fault, if that makes sense. So you know this body houses us and so we really need to just respect it for what it is today. And you know it it's pretty amazing all the things that it can do, and so I've been doing a lot of affirmations on just, you know, kind of accepting my body, embracing it, loving it what do you do in the midst of, because you're attracting all this positivity and you're aligning your vibration to only like positive, happy, good things?
Speaker 1:what do you do in the moments where reality doom and gloom? Maybe the moments where you're like, oh, like you know, I wish that I. It sucks, I can't do anything. Or like, oh man, like I don't feel good at all, I have no energy, like this, like how do you get through that? By changing your mind, or how does that all go down?
Speaker 2:So typically you don't want to just dismiss it, right? So acknowledging you know I am human and in this moment I am feeling whatever. I am feeling overwhelmed, I am feeling whatever. I am feeling overwhelmed, I am feeling grief, I am feeling sadness, frustrated, I'm angry. Whatever it is, and just take some time and experience it, and so that can be having a meltdown, it can be going outside and just walking it off, it can be anything, really anything but yes, be in it and then, once you have been in it a sufficient amount of time, just say to your body this is perfectly human, this is perfectly natural.
Speaker 2:But let's let it go, let's release whatever part of this your body is ready to let go of and then, you know, try to focus on something that is better. So I think some people make the mistake that you're either going to be at the bottom or the top, but there's some places in the middle where you're just content, and so maybe you have this little catharsis and then you say you know what? I've been reading this book that's really entertaining me. I'm just going to read this and enjoy the book for a bit. Think about some positive experience or person in your life and really re-experience it person in your life and really re-experience it.
Speaker 1:So what is the thing that you are most proud of or that you celebrate most?
Speaker 2:Well, I think I can celebrate the place where I am now. I celebrate that I feel the most authentic me that I have ever. It is a big question, you know. I celebrate the fact that I have been blessed throughout my life with many things that other people have not, you know, including material things, but you know, intellect, religion, faith, a sense of calling, those are things that not everyone has the opportunity to have, and so I'm glad that I had those things and I hope that I made the best of them.
Speaker 1:You know, you said that you weren't like afraid of dying. What about the people that you leave behind?
Speaker 2:So yeah, yeah. So you know that's something that you spend some time thinking about, something that you spend some time thinking about. As I think I mentioned last time, I've been married to Bill for 43 years and over that time our relationship has just really deepened and it's hit all those levels that you would want a good marriage to hit. I mean, right now we are closer than ever. I'm very much dependent on him for taking care of me, and then I have a daughter who is 37, and we are very much kindred spirits, which is nice, and I have noticed that throughout this ordeal, the strength that she has shown is very reminiscent of strength that I would have shown.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so we've had, you know, some discussions about death and what it will be like when I'm not here. It will be a big adjustment for them, but as I think about my life and dying, I feel like some of those really good things that you cultivate during your life wouldn't just go away. I feel like somehow they will continue to be shared with the people that I love and that the people I love will be able to use the strength that I had and the courage that I had to go through this experience to maybe make their days a little easier. Something else that just popped into my mind too, lauren, is, you know, the importance of each person developing their own person and not being dependent on others. So, as I say, right now I'm very dependent on my husband, but in the grand scheme of things, we are each our own person and independent.
Speaker 1:Strong Because you know, no matter what, we love people and practice non-attachment as well, Like we're there for them, we need them, we're relational beings, but you know it's not ours forever. You know it's really really hard, obviously.
Speaker 2:It's not always easy to be in the moment, but I find myself better to be in the moment when I can notice creation, or just notice some comical thing, some wry humor, when I feel myself going down a dark place, you know, just looking for the things that give me joy. Yeah, just lighten it up a little bit. You know, I might uh flip on. I love those cooking competitions on HGTV. Totally a waste of time, but I absolutely love those. So I'll just turn one of those on and, you know, get my mind focused on that and then come back.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I mean, don't you think there's a part of us too that can you know sometimes go too deep and spend too much time in that sometimes, and you can go down all the rabbit holes and sometimes it's like, know, let's just like be a little bit lighter, you know. So then, like you know, when you feel like you're having a hard moment or a hard day, like, is that kind of like how you navigate through that types of stuff, like, do you listen to music, do you like?
Speaker 2:yeah. So I kind of do all of those things, uh, just whatever feels right in the moment. I get my greatest peace when I'm able to meditate, but that just isn't always possible when you have a mind that's like so I um find that if meditation doesn't work, I find that if meditation doesn't work, the next thing I usually try is an energy session. So my teacher, sarah Lascano, she has created a bunch of online sessions and so you can just go and listen to those sessions. So it's not exactly like a guided meditation, but it's a guided exercise. Those can also be very calming and she has them on all kinds of topics so you can just go in there and say you know what, like this morning, I was like I feel like I need to listen to something about surrender, and so that was very helpful to get my day started.
Speaker 2:But I also will read books. I love historical fiction, mysteries. I enjoy really old television programs. Sometimes I will turn on my yoga music and just kind of veg out to the yoga music, especially because I'm sure you're the same I have certain playlists that I could able to remember moving in a certain way or losing myself in a certain way, feeling at peace, so that that helps.
Speaker 1:How often do you, if you had to give it, maybe like a percentage wise, like how often do you feel like you are kind of you know down about the situation, versus like how much you know you feel at peace?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it really has varied. From September to February I felt at peace almost all the time. When I did feel emotion, it made sense. I mean, you're dealing with a terminal illness.
Speaker 2:In February was when I first started having symptoms and feeling bad physically. So in fact, for the first, you know, five months or so, I think that I had beaten the cancer. I mean, I felt like it. There was no doubt in my mind. And so in February, when I went in to see why I was having this nausea problem and they did the scan, I was not expecting them to say what they said, I was not expecting for that tumor to have grown. So that just, you know, kind of knocked me back for a loop. You know I take that those five months as a miracle and we had very, very good life experiences during those five months, very good life experiences during those five months. So now that I'm having more physical symptoms it's harder, you know, because it gets very weary and tiring not to feel the way you want to feel. But you know you just take each one and do the best that you can. Each one and do the best that you can.
Speaker 2:Back in the I'll call it the miracle months. It was not difficult to think about my fighting at all. I felt very strong and capable of doing something and I was doing a lot of meditation and really hearing messages, sensing messages, so I knew I was on the right path and everything. But obviously now it's back. I'm feeling a lot of symptoms. It's like I'll be able to manage one, and then another one surfaces, but I keep working at it.
Speaker 2:Part of me feels like it might be time to give in, but I also know that this is totally out of my control and I think if God wants to create a miracle in me, I am open to that miracle. If God chooses that this be my death, I'm okay with that as well. I'm getting more okay with it in that I knew I wasn't going to live forever. This certainly wasn't the plan that I knew. I wasn't going to live forever. This certainly wasn't the plan that I had. But you know what? I don't think anybody has a plan, so I will take what I'm given and be grateful, you know.
Speaker 2:And I think it would be hard, you know, when you're like, yeah, like my body is saying one thing but my spirit is saying another, you know Right but my spirit is saying another, you know Right, and I do think that one of the things that makes it easier for me is I really have had a beautiful life. No, things were not perfect. I've certainly had a few traumas along the way, but in terms of just navigating a good path for me, I have. I loved my job, I loved my family, I loved changing over to yoga in my retirement. You know that's a regret. I wish I could have done that longer, but you know what? One good practice is pretty darn good.
Speaker 1:And the thing is is that you know, if you were to go today, your impact like you've impacted so many people and that is there, it's not like it was a wasted life at all, and that you didn't do the things that you were wanting to do or you weren't loving enough or you weren't open enough or any of those things you know. So to know that that you've impacted so many people, like your story, your spirit, sharing all those things like that must feel really good.
Speaker 2:It does and you know that that's one of the things that I was. I've always tried to be a good listener and you know, when I give advice, I try to make sure it's well thought out and that it seems like the person might want it, as opposed to just wanting someone to listen to them. I thought I was going to be more of a spiritual teacher in my older age, but we'll see.
Speaker 1:I mean, you're pretty much, you know, living the spiritual journey and sharing it. You're teaching people what it looks like to have peace in the midst of a really bad situation and how to navigate it with love and without a bunch of fear attached to it, without a bunch of misery attached to it. You know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it was really important for me to you know, have this conversation with you, because I hope people would learn from my story that it's okay to question, it's okay to look at other alternatives than traditional medicine.
Speaker 1:Because you've been able to navigate this the way that you want to Do.
Speaker 2:you think that, at the end of the day, the most important thing is At the end of the day, the most important thing is that all the people that I ever met, whether it be through family yoga, through workshops, through teaching, through being an administrator, to being a child, a daughter mom the most important thing to me is that daughter mom. The most important thing to me is that all those people know how much I love them, and I hope that you know. As our world progresses, I hope that we are able to create more love than hate and begin to just love each person for who they are and for the light that they have inside them. You know, that thing that makes them special.
Speaker 1:You know, and I've really been thinking about it, and I think that you know, we really must like love ourselves first and fully, so that then we really can show up and love other people well and fully and deeply.
Speaker 2:And back to like like a really simple example. You know, I think when we begin teaching yoga, we are definitely not our authentic selves yet At least most of us aren't and I think it's really scary sometimes to have that. Oh is this imposter syndrome to have that? Oh is this imposter syndrome. Thankfully, I really grew into my gift for teaching yoga. I don't do it like other people Other people don't do it like other people, but it's just so interesting how each person's soul comes through and can make a difference for their students.
Speaker 1:So what do you think happens when we die? Do you think that we get another chance and then we keep doing this over and over again? Or do you think that you know there's a heaven that we hang in?
Speaker 2:Yes, you know that's something I have no idea about, but yeah, we can imagine. But one thing I think it will happen is I do think that my soul is going to live on and I think my soul will be able to communicate with other. I'm just going to call it kindred spirits Because since I've had this illness, I've remembered people in my past who had tremendous influence on me or made me feel good, and I think of them and for some reason it's like I can feel them reaching down from heaven. When I was a little girl, I had a Sunday school teacher and we called her Granny White. She wasn't my granny, but she was Granny White to everyone and she taught Sunday school and you know we were probably like second, third grade, so not the worst of kids, but not the best but every week she would emphasize, either beginning, middle or end of the class, how much Jesus loves you and that just resonates with my heart so much.
Speaker 2:I do practice the Christian faith, but I'm not super wedded to the Christian faith. I believe there are all different religions. They all have things in common and the thing they have in common is divine. So I do believe that I will be surrounded by other divine souls like me that will help me. I also feel like, while I won't be able to talk to anybody necessarily be able to talk to anybody necessarily I do feel like when I live in somebody's memory or they remember some advice that you know, that's a way of me continuing to help those that I love here in the earthly life. But you know, the universe is huge and even though our intellect is somewhat good, you know we are like, we know about a peas amount when it comes to, like what the world really is and what the universe is and what God is.
Speaker 1:But I think it will be good you know, and we talked about this with worry and with everything else. You know we need to know when to. You know really feel the feelings through, when to put them down. You know to feel completely and yeah, so I just thank you so much for sharing with us. I know, again, like I said, it's going to impact so many people. Your story, your life is such a gift and, yeah, thank you so much.
Speaker 2:I want to thank you for allowing me to be on your podcast. That's, you know. That's pretty cool for me, Thank you.